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Critical of Hawass?
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stephaniep
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Granite,
Sad news indeed. I wonder exactly what is missing from the amarna period (which Nefertiti & princess)? They got some choice stuff, but it will be hard to resell.
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Granite
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawass on 7/2/2011: "One showcase in the Ahkenaten galleries was smashed; it contained a standing statue of the king carrying an offering tray. While the showcase is badly damaged, the statue sustained very minor damage and is repairable,"
Today, 12/2/2911, the statue is missing, presumed stolen. What is going on?
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Calypsos
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you think he's going to be retired now his chum is gone?
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are two different statues, Granite.
The one gone missing is a statue of Tutankhamen being carried on the head of a goddess.
The other is a statue of Tutankhamen carrying a tray. (most likely used for cosmetics)

I cannot see Hawass being replaced by anyone else--unless there is a radical turn-over in all government agencies. He has, at various times, made a fool of himelf with several questionable statements, but he is a man who is very deeply concerned with Egyptology, and an outstanding scholar.
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Granite
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You obviously haven't looked at ZH's latest entry on his webpage, my friend!
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Rozette
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Picture of the showcase in the Ahkenaten galleries
and the standing statue of Akhenaten carrying an offering tray.

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Rozette
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Picture of the missing objects

Tutankhamun being carried by a goddess.

Gilded wood statue of Tutankhamun harpooning. Only the torso and upper limbs of the king are missing according to Z. Hawass.

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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Granite wrote:
Priceless pieces lost...but how come they hadn't noticed it before? This gives us the measure of the man.


How come? How about:
* not having a photographic memory
* Being affected by the general situation in the country and being out of sorts himself (you don't really expect him to be unaffected do you)
* Being between a rock and a hard place: if he does not report anything he will be accused of a cover-up; if he says too much he will be wrong at times.
* Being overwhelmed with all the tasks he must be faced with in these unprecedented times. Theft, break ins, damage, getting reports, verifying the stories he hears, trying to separate fact from fiction. There were so may rumors that turned out to be wrong, but would have taken up his time.

You honestly cannot come up with any suggestions at all (besides the negative ones) that would explain the situation? Are you so unwilling to look for plausible reasons that may not put him in a bad light that you must immediately assume the worst?

I'm not sure how many thousands of items are in the museum, but I'm pretty sure no one really has a complete list in their head. I'm fairly sure it would take quite a while to get all the information straightened out.

@ Stephaniep: there was a list of items now listed as missing from the museum. (See below). I agree, sad to see these going missing. I hope they will be recovered soon.

Quote:
"The staff of the database department at the Egyptian Museum, Cairo
have given me their report on the inventory of objects at the museum
following the break in. Sadly, they have discovered objects are missing
from the museum. The objects missing are as follows:
1. Gilded wood statue of Tutankhamun being carried by a goddess
2. Gilded wood statue of Tutankhamun harpooning. Only the torso
and upper limbs of the king are missing
3. Limestone statue of Akhenaten holding an offering table
4. Statue of Nefertiti making offerings
5. Sandstone head of an Amarna princess
6. Stone statuette of a scribe from Amarna
7. Wooden shabti statuettes from Yuya (11 pieces)
8. Heart Scarab of Yuya
(..) In another terrible turn of events, last night a magazine in Dahshur
was broken into; it is called De Morgan's. This magazine contains
large blocks and small artifacts."


Yes, they had to actually check the databases. It is of course sad these items are lost. It must be a huge job to coordinate all the restorations and figure out what is happening everywhere.

I for one see a man who must be rather overwhelmed and who is trying to deal with a combination of theft, damage and sadly some looting.

I for one am not going to sit here like some backseat driver from hell passing judgment on every move he makes. And wracking my brain at every step trying to find the worst possible spin on everything.

As much as I do not always like his policies, I kinda feel for anyone being put in a situation like this. It is clear he truly loves egyptology and must be a living nightmare for him.
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Last edited by anneke on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for those photographs Rozette. That does seem to cover the items most seriously damaged and/or stolen. The main vitrine with the Tutankhamen statues really was hit the hardest. I have read some speculation that the thiefs may have thought they were solid gold?

I'm not entirely clear on if there was just one break-in or if there were more than one?
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stephaniep
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the list, Anneke.

Does anyone know about the statue of Nefertiti, I can't think of one there off the top of my head, or the sandstone princess (likewise drawing a blank)?
Thanks
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Granite,

Taken from ZH web site, "sad news":

The objects missing are as follows:
1. Gilded wood statue of Tutankhamun being carried by a goddess
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Kharis
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Anneke for your list and also your calm and objective view of the terrible problems faced by ZH in trying to deal with a very difficult situation.

I see from the news that the current cabinet is to remain in place for the time being, so it seems ZH's position as Minister is unaffected.
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kevininabydos
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately true Kharis. But like the presidency who will replace him, anyone who thinks he is not a part of the old regime and all it stood for is mistaken. By that I refer to the suppression of information, silencing of opponents, repression of rivals. As and when he hopefully goes will be a good day for Egyptology and with luck will lead to a more open and honest profession, one not controlled by an egotistical despot.
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Granite
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While no one on the forum wants to gratuitously blacken anyone's reputation, and while justice demands we concede suspects the benefit of the doubt. we cannot ignore facts; they will not go away and, in the case of ZH, have been building up for years against him. The latest batch re the lootings show either gross incompetence (how could one not notice for two weeks that those key pieces were missing, or state that there were TWO skulls in KV55, or mix up Maya and Maia?) or cynical manipulation of the facts. Sorry, but no other explanation seems to fit the facts.
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Ranoferhotep
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevininabydos wrote:
Unfortunately true Kharis. But like the presidency who will replace him, anyone who thinks he is not a part of the old regime and all it stood for is mistaken. By that I refer to the suppression of information, silencing of opponents, repression of rivals. As and when he hopefully goes will be a good day for Egyptology and with luck will lead to a more open and honest profession, one not controlled by an egotistical despot.


And who should replace him? Who is capable to protect, defend, and to bring A.E. in to the spotlights. Hawass may sometimes come over like a fool. He has a degree in Egyptology, and as far as I know he keeps the spotlights on A.E. heritage. That it took some time to figure out what was precisely missing is normal I think. We mustnít forget that the Egyptian Museum of Cairo contains a few thousand objects on display.

It is very easy for us to spawn critic from behind our computer in our lazy chair. Iím not a fan of Hawass, but I do give him credit. IMHO I truly believe this man is heartbroken now. I hope the international community will support Egypt, and especially the construction of the GEM, which will hopefully be a better housing to keep and preserve Egyptís ancient artifacts.
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