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How do YOU pronounce Tutankhamun?
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Unas
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:46 pm    Post subject: How do YOU pronounce Tutankhamun? Reply with quote

I've heard two versions, but I bet there are others.

1. TOOT-EN-COMMON

2. TOO-TANK-AMUN
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Meretseger
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'TUT ank amon'

I am a simple soul, I usually pronounce names the way they look. Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that's a good practical rule of thumb, Meretseger, we all read what we see, but with an attached caveat in this case.
The centerpiece of Tut's name is the symbol of Life, given by the "Ankh", as expressed in the usual English transliteration. The way I feel about it, this is certainly not an "Ank", so there ought to be some care in pronouncing it, at least when addressing people not too versed in AE.
The guttural sound being expressed in English by the double consonant "kh" is also written differently (and accepted in this forum) by people with other mother tongues. I find the "J" (Spanish), "Ch" (German and Scottish), "X" (Greek and Mexican) among others, with some not renderable in the Latin alphabet.
Maybe a better approximation to the proper sound (at east of this one), as written in English, would be a different double consonante such as "hg".
I have asked different people to read aloud "Anhg" and they all sound about right. But there will probably be some opposition to writing "Smenhgkaruh"
Now, the "Tut" part is something else again: I definitely believe that word ought to sound more like "Toot" than anything diferent.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neteria wrote:
Well, that's a good practical rule of thumb, Meretseger, we all read what we see, but with an attached caveat in this case.
The centerpiece of Tut's name is the symbol of Life, given by the "Ankh", as expressed in the usual English transliteration. The way I feel about it, this is certainly not an "Ank", so there ought to be some care in pronouncing it, at least when addressing people not too versed in AE.
The guttural sound being expressed in English by the double consonant "kh" is also written differently (and accepted in this forum) by people with other mother tongues. I find the "J" (Spanish), "Ch" (German and Scottish), "X" (Greek and Mexican) among others, with some not renderable in the Latin alphabet.
Maybe a better approximation to the proper sound (at east of this one), as written in English, would be a different double consonante such as "hg".
I have asked different people to read aloud "Anhg" and they all sound about right. But there will probably be some opposition to writing "Smenhgkaruh"
Now, the "Tut" part is something else again: I definitely believe that word ought to sound more like "Toot" than anything diferent.


Toot
Ank (german "ch") as in
Amun

or Tut if i want to be lazy

or Neb-Kheperu-Re if i want to be a smarty pants!! Wink

Good question though - thanks. I have the same with Hatshepsut. I say Hat-Shep-sut (sut= like put, as in "i put my hat on"

others have very different ways of saying her name. My strong belief is that we are all right. Again with Thutmose/Tutmose/Djehutymose.

You say potato, i say potato (that really doesn't work online that expression, but i hope you get what i mean).

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Stuart
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:19 am    Post subject: Re: How do YOU pronounce Tutankhamun? Reply with quote

Unas wrote:
I've heard two versions, but I bet there are others.

1. TOOT-EN-COMMON

2. TOO-TANK-AMUN


Being that I have to fairly often transliterate the king's name from glyphs, it's best to approach it from that angle. The transliteration of the name is

/ imn twt anx/

roughly pronounced

imen toot ankh (in which "kh" is like "ch" in 'Bach')

I would then adjust for the honorific transposition, and likely say it as

"Toot - ankh - imen"

meaning

"image - living -Amun"

which translated means

"Living image of Amun"

So, you have to think about what you are saying: it's not just a name: it's a statement.

How one says each element of the king's name is important, and really how I'd think about saying the name.

FWIW.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I usually go with Toot-ahnkh-AH-mon. It's just easier to say.

Toot-ahnkh-ah-MOON sounds nice just a little harder to wrap my Brooklyn born tongue around.

Spoken alone, I prefer Ah-MOON to AH-mon. It just sound more powerful and mysterious. I know the correct transliteration is I-mn. Is that pronounced EEE-moon or Eye-moon?

Somewhere, if the afterlife exists, the ancient Egyptians are sitting around the Field of Reeds watching the Discovery Channel alternately being pleased that modern Egyptologists are causing their names to live and being driven absolutely nuts by their inability to pronounce them properly.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've heard many egyptologists pronounce many names differently. i say toot-ankh-amen. i have seen egyptologists say hat-shep-soot, but i used to say hat-shep-sut. i used to say akh-hen-a-ten, but proffessionals say akhen-aten. i think there is no proper way, not one we could say it with, as coptic is the closest language to ancient egyptian, and they should have the closest pronounciation.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I pronounce it Too-tank-ah-moon
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naunacht wrote:
I usually go with Toot-ahnkh-AH-mon. It's just easier to say.

Toot-ahnkh-ah-MOON sounds nice just a little harder to wrap my Brooklyn born tongue around.

Spoken alone, I prefer Ah-MOON to AH-mon. It just sound more powerful and mysterious. I know the correct transliteration is I-mn. Is that pronounced EEE-moon or Eye-moon?

Somewhere, if the afterlife exists, the ancient Egyptians are sitting around the Field of Reeds watching the Discovery Channel alternately being pleased that modern Egyptologists are causing their names to live and being driven absolutely nuts by their inability to pronounce them properly.


Laughing Laughing

I'm sure i have seen that depiction on some tomb or another.... Wink

I like the thought though Naunacht,

Stuart
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, so here's a related question. Do you think there should be some kind of accepted "standard" pronounciation of the big names (Tutankhamun, Hatshepsut, Tutmose, Amun Re, etc...), or, as Stuart indicates, is it better just to let everyone work it out on their own?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unas wrote:
Okay, so here's a related question. Do you think there should be some kind of accepted "standard" pronounciation of the big names (Tutankhamun, Hatshepsut, Tutmose, Amun Re, etc...), or, as Stuart indicates, is it better just to let everyone work it out on their own?


Good look on that one. I'd like to call for standard spelling too.

Egyptologists can't even agree on whether to use the Greek transliteration that Manetho initiated. It does seem that most these days prefer Khufu to Cheops but it depends on the author's preferences whether other names will be spelled or pronounced Amenophis v Amonhotep, or Thuthmosis v Thutmose (much less Djheutymes which is probably closer to the original)

Meanwhile, back in front of the flat screen TV in the Field of Reeds, the Pharoahs are watching yet another Discovery Channel special.

Upon hearing Zahi Hawass for the umpteenth time refer to him as Tuthmosis, Thutmose III jumps up and threatens to put his flail scepter through the screen.

"IT'S DJHEUTYMES YOU ASS. I'll even take Thutmose, at least it sounds like a guy's name. Tuthmosis sounds like an oral hygiene problem."

He's restrained by Ramses II and Seti I. (The father son team are pretty much OK with the way their names are pronounced these days and besides, they're big sports fans. Getting a TV into the Underworld so they could root for Egypt in the World Cup was not easy. Osiris is a traditionalist)

Across the room, Hatshepsut grins evilly over her jar of beer.

"What's the matter, Nephew? At least Manetho had a chance to read YOUR name on the monuments."

Actually they've sort of made up a few centuries over that little issue of his removing her name from the monuments and bashing her statues to smithereens. It was, after all a matter of policy, and Hatshepsut understands policy, but she still likes to tweak him.

"Goddamn Greeks." he mutters. His son, Amonhotep II nods in agreement, he's none too fond of being called Amonophis.

"SAY WHAT!" says another outraged female voice.

"Oh, sorry Cleopatra." says Thutmose, glancing at a group of glaring Ptolemy's who are sitting around a table sharing a jar of wine.

"That temper is exactly the reason I kept the training wheels on your chariot for so long, young man." says Hatshepsut "Here you are, over 3500 years old and you lose it over some talking head in an Indiana Jones hat. Besides, I read on the Internet that he's out. You won't have to listen to him any more."

"You have a laptop!" says Tutankhamon in awe.

"Shhhh, don't tel Osiris." says Hatshepsut. "Actually it's an I Pad."

"Cool." says the boy king.

"Come over to my palace tonight and I'll show it to you." she smiles.

"Cradle robber." grumbles Thutmose III.

"Can we please re-enact the feud of the Thutmosids some other time." says Khufu "Man vs Wild" is coming on. I love watching that guy eat bugs."
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unas wrote:
Okay, so here's a related question. Do you think there should be some kind of accepted "standard" pronounciation of the big names (Tutankhamun, Hatshepsut, Tutmose, Amun Re, etc...), or, as Stuart indicates, is it better just to let everyone work it out on their own?


No- providing the information being supplied about the invividual is correct and in context, then i personally feel that individuals should pronounce names the way they are comfortable with.

The same way that names in modern day are pronounced differently when spoken by people of different native backgrounds. They read the same- or similar (like Tutmose/ Thutmose/ Tothmose/ Thothmose) so are the same person, but are pronounced differently.

An example of my own use of pronunciations would be that i say "Neferure" and not "Neferura" but to me the sun god is pronounced Ra. This may change in time as my preferences change, but i would not correct anyone based on my own correct/incorrect preferences.

Stuart
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naunacht wrote:
It does seem that most these days prefer Khufu to Cheops but it depends on the author's preferences


Yes--the older books are full of Cheops, newer books full of Khufu.


Naunacht wrote:

[i]Meanwhile, back in front of the flat screen TV in the Field of Reeds, the Pharoahs are watching yet another Discovery Channel special.


Laughing Laughing Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naunacht wrote:


Meanwhile, back in front of the flat screen TV in the Field of Reeds, the Pharoahs are watching yet another Discovery Channel special.



I love it! Laughing Do some more, do some more!!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Styler78 wrote:
Unas wrote:
Okay, so here's a related question. Do you think there should be some kind of accepted "standard" pronounciation of the big names (Tutankhamun, Hatshepsut, Tutmose, Amun Re, etc...), or, as Stuart indicates, is it better just to let everyone work it out on their own?


No- providing the information being supplied about the invividual is correct and in context, then i personally feel that individuals should pronounce names the way they are comfortable with.

The same way that names in modern day are pronounced differently when spoken by people of different native backgrounds. They read the same- or similar (like Tutmose/ Thutmose/ Tothmose/ Thothmose) so are the same person, but are pronounced differently.

An example of my own use of pronunciations would be that i say "Neferure" and not "Neferura" but to me the sun god is pronounced Ra. This may change in time as my preferences change, but i would not correct anyone based on my own correct/incorrect preferences.

Stuart


Or as Fred Astaire put it....

(refrain)
You say eether and I say eyether,
You say neether and I say nyther;
Eether, eyether, neether, nyther,
Let's call the whole thing off!
You like potato and I like potahto,
You like tomato and I like tomahto;
Potato, potahto, tomato, tomahto!
Let's call the whole thing off!

Seriously, with an ancient language which was written primarily with consonants and few if any vowels there is a broad range of possible pronunciations. I have to admit going with whatever sounds better to my ears which may not sound good at all to someone else.
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