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Ptahshepses
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Joined: 21 Jan 2012
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Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:22 am    Post subject: Hello to one and all Reply with quote

Hello there

I found your site whilst searching for images of the 6th dynasty king Merenre (I refuse to use the word pharaoh). Having found your site and finding that you don't agree that there are helicopters in the glyphs at Abydos, I thought I'd contribute a thing or two.
When I studied 'Egyptology' (the world was very different then - dinosaurs roamed the earth) I concentrated on pyramid design and evolving styles.

At one point in my varied history, I was taught how to use AutoCad so I find using SketchUp quite easy
Now I have time on my hands, I 'create' virtual tombs, monuments and pyramids in 3d. They are more for the architectural interest rather than artistic representations and no- I don't stick images of the walls of the Theban tombs.
I can make 'fly-arounds' and convert those into a video file, the trouble is the size of the file. The video of Khufu is over 500Mb, but if you reduce the size of the file you reduce the quality. Oh well.

The dimensions of the 3d images are as accurate as I can get and sometimes I can even get lucky and 'render' a view into something half decent.
I'll load a couple of things into Photobucket and post a link or two. In the meantime here's a rendered photo of (from the left) Neferefre, Queen Khentkaues Ii
Neferirkare and Niuserre. All my own work.

That's what it might have looked like before the stone robbers pinched it all

L-P-H
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautiful image. I always enjoy seeing these reconstructions.
It can be hard to see what a whole complex would have looked like after the site has been used as a one stop supply store for building materials over the centuries.

The structure in front of the pyramid on the right kinda looks like the hieroglyph for throne.

Glad you decided to join and I'm looking forward to seeing your reconstructions!
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Ptahshepses
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Joined: 21 Jan 2012
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Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with making these is the only dimensions I can get is length and width. I can usually get the height of the pyramid, but the height of the walls and temple? Guesswork.

Nuisere decided to offset his outer temple to the south and the inverted 'aus' shape of the roofs is because I chose to make one roof cover the three elements. There's nothing to say they each had their own roof because they were on different levels.
Artistic impression and best guess.

When I make these, each part of the pyramid complex is assigned to its own level and these levels can be turned on and off individually. I can even make walls transparent if I wanted to...

Here's a more conventional 6th dynasty pyramid Pepi I. This has the 'roof levels switched on'


This has the 'roofs levels switched off'


Here's one with ground turned off and pyramid is transparent so you can see the internals. It's a screengrab and hasn't been rendered


BTW, the dimensions I find for the 'queens pyramids', are 21m square and 21m high. They look wrong to me - too steep.
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Priest of Hekat
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Joined: 30 Sep 2010
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Location: Luxor, West Bank

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the forum Ptahshepses. I am originally from Hampshire in the UK but have been resident in Luxor for almost 5 years now since retiring.

Interesting renderings of the pyramids. Regarding your comment about the ratio of height to base dimension for the queen pyramids, we have several with that sort of ratio on Deir El Medina tombs. Also the pyramids in Nubia seem to have that form as well.
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Ptahshepses
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Joined: 21 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

West Bank of Luxor eh? Lucky, lucky man.

I have spent many happy hours on the west bank. Many, many happy hours......hiding from the midday sun by sitting in the garden of the Fayrous, drinking cold beer, talking absolute nonsense and turning a short lunch break into a four hour session Very Happy Bukra Inshallah.

I've seen the reconstruction of the pyramid atop Sennedjem's tomb at Deir el-Medina, and I have wondered what the angle is.
The angle of Pepi I's Queen's pyramids work out at 63.4, most of the 6th dynasty pyramids are about 53

Interestingly, Mark Lehner and and Miroslav Verner both write that the 'Bent' pyramid started life as a smaller construct with an angle of 60.

I wonder what the angles of Sneferu's other pyramids, Seila, Sinki, Naqada, et al, were? Were the original smooth sided smaller pyramids much steeper in angle and it all went wrong only when they tried to make the same steep angles in a full-sized pyramid that couldn't support it's own weight?
if so, it would bear out Kurt Mendelssohn's theory.
I forget. Is Mendelssohn in or out of favour this year?

Mind you, Sneferu would have done a lot better if he had put a foundation under the Bent pyramid, rather than putting all that weight straight onto clay.
The Nubian pyramids are a different kettle of fish. Little is written about them and I'd love to know the architecture.

If I get back out to Luxor again, I'll buy you a beer in the Fayrous or JJ's.
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Priest of Hekat
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Fayrous is a very popular place not more than 400m from our home.
We also know JJ's rather well Wink

Of course, the small pyramids can sustain the higher angle without collapse but once you get to the bigger ones structural issues like foundations and material weight all impact heavily on the design, as the pioneers discovered.

Would love to go down to Meroe. Maybe one year, Insha'allah
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LadyOsiris
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's very interesting and wonderful reconstruction!

Welcome Ptahshepses Smile
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Unas
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! What a fun project! Those are really cool.

I also share an interest in this period...do you happen to have made a recontruction of the complex of Unas, or Teti?

Very impressive work, and welcome! Smile
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Unas
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! What a fun project! Those are really cool.

I also share an interest in this period...do you happen to have made a recontruction of the complex of Unas, or Teti?

Very impressive work, and welcome! Smile
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Unas
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! What a fun project! Those are really cool.

I also share an interest in this period...do you happen to have made a recontruction of the complex of Unas, or Teti?

Very impressive work, and welcome! Smile
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Ptahshepses
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Joined: 21 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm doing them in chronological order, so yes, I have already done Unas & Teti
I'll sort out a screen grab Smile
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Neteria
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:30 am    Post subject: Re: Hello to one and all Reply with quote

Excellent work indeed, Ptahshepses! From my recollection of the Abusir complex, I seem to remember an overall view quite similar to the sand dunes you have so masterfully "rendered". I mention them here first because probably not many will feel impressed by something as simple and ho-hum as desert sand. But it succeeds in providing the background feeling.
Obviously, your perspectives are nothing less than stunning. This work probably belongs in a more specialized thread that does not get lost among the many "hellos" from new participants, so here I'll just concentrate on what I know and to which can contribute something.
Ptahshepses wrote:
In the meantime here's a rendered photo of (from the left) Neferefre, Queen Khentkaues Ii
Neferirkare and Niuserre. All my own work.

That's what it might have looked like before the stone robbers pinched it all
L-P-H
While this thread-change happens, I have a question about this Abusir site (the references to Neferirkare and Niuserre are telling): from my impression of the "True North" direction, I would feel that the midle background ought to be occupied by the Sahure pyramid, which is older than those two displayed, with a well-preserved causeway leading toward the right (East, and the Nile).
However, this does not fit with the visible causeways leading to an apparent South (lower part of the image), so I probably have to twist my head somehow.
Besides, the Neferirkare pyramid was in my recollecton a step-pyramid, so by making it smooth you have presumably made its visible steps to be just the inner pyramidal core (as happens in Meidun).
I also seem to remember climbing over and visiting a very interesting Pthahotpe mastaba (which might be the structure to the right side of your image).
Did you decide to omit some of these as unimportant, or lacking enough data to allow such reconstructions? My personal interest lies in the fact that the Sahure pyramid was the only one into which I was able to bodily crawl, barely creeping under broken lintels and above a slippery filling of swirling sand. The inside by the way looked just as ruinous as the outside - and quite a bit more dangerous!
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Ptahshepses
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello and thanks for the compliments

The ground starts out as a Google earth 'grab' so I can place the pyramids/mastabas onto Google Earth when I've finished.
I replace the Google earth snapshot because I can make that transparent and I can put water where there is none now.
The 'rendered dunes' is the result of trial and error and a lot of cutting and pasting

The picture you referred to is viewed fro the east, Sahure is out of shot to the right in that picture.
Here's another shot where I've panned back
l-r Neferefre, Queen Khentkaues II, Neferirkare, Niuserre, the mastaba of Pthashepses, Sahure, sun temple of Userkaf and the sun temple of Niuserre.

There's a lot of guess work in that picture Very Happy

I've only created things when I have a floor plan and/dimensions.
I created the mastaba of Ptahshepses because I have these.
Here's a shot with the temple roof and the roof of the mastaba removed

If I did every building surrounding every pyramid, there would be so many elements in the scene that the program crawls to a standstill.
I know this because I once tried to accurately 'populate' Giza with every mastaba, pyramid and temple and it overloaded the program which quit on me.

I chose my screen name because I was working on the mastaba of Ptahshepses when I joined this site. Smile
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Ptahshepses
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unas, I hadn't forgotten you - I've got round to putting a couple of images of Unas on Photobucket



Taken from the south looking (roughly) north(ish) Unas, Djoser and Userkaf




From the east looking west
in the background is Sekhemkhet (if his pyramid and complex made it that far) and Unas, Djoser and Userkaf

And this one is the temple without a roof and the pyramid is wireframe so you can see underneath




Webmaster, do these image files take up too much of your bandwidth?
I can easily post the address of the file as opposed to the image itself.
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Unas
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, great! Those are terrific.

The close-up transparent shot of the Unas pyramid is quite something...I never realized how the pyramid's interior (the rooms with the pyramid texts) isn't really inside the pyramid, but under it. I mean, I was sort of aware, but not really, if you know what I'm saying! This picture actually shows what is going on.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your work, and good luck with future projects![/i]
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