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Should Nefertiti be Chetite?
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Orwell
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:21 am    Post subject: Should Nefertiti be Chetite? Reply with quote

I brought this up on another thread, but thought it might be best to discuss on a separate thread. I found this somewhere on internet. I could not work out who the writer was, but this a quote from what I found.

"To answer that question we first have to correct the Egyptologist's false transcription of Nefertiti's name, originally rendered as Nofretete and now given in "neo-Egyptology" as Nefertiti. Both versions are hopelessly wrong.The correct transcription of the hieroglyphic name of Nefertiti, as we have discovered, is in fact Chetite, i.e. the name means the Hittite Queen, a name which makes sense since at this time there is a flurry of letter exchanges to and from this region, the so-called "Amarna Letters"Explanation: the hieroglypgh NFR as in NEFERtiti means "breath in the throat", so it is not meant to write NFR out as part of the name, but rather to render it as a "rasping throaty breath" sound.)"

(1) Is it possible that Nefertiti was a mistranslated word that meant 'Hittite Queen'?

(2) Could the Mitanni King's daughter, Tadukhipa, be of a Hittite Ruling Class in Mitanni? Like the Greek Ptolemies or the Norman Kings of Scotland?

(3) Could Kiya be the Hittite Queen's real name?
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: Should Nefertiti be Chetite? Reply with quote

Orwell wrote:
...The correct transcription of the hieroglyphic name of Nefertiti, as we have discovered, is in fact Chetite, i.e. the name means the Hittite Queen, ...

For this I would like to see the document. If someone makes a statement like this he should be able to explain it clearly to others?!

Greetings, Lutz.
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Orwell
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will need to go have another look. I think whoever posted the comments was saying the glyph (? hope that's right) for Nephertiti should read Chetite.

There were two different things I found while wandering aimlessly about the internet. It caught my attention because of the old idea that Tadukhipa may have been Kiya or Nefertiti (or both). So when I saw Chetite as an alternative for Nefertiti, and Chetite meaning the "Hittite Queen", I kind of pricked up my ears. What would it mean for Egyptogology if we had a "Tadukhipa (Kiwa) the Hittite Queen"? Anyhow, I'll try to look further. I was hoping someone here was already onto the possibility and could confirm if it was feasible or not.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiya and Nefertiti cannot be the same woman. The former's titulary gave her the style 'Great Beloved Wife' of Akhenaten embelished with a number of HIS titles. Nefertiti on the other hand had a long string of honorifics in addition to the traditional 'King's Chief Wife, Lady of Upper and Lower Egypt'. Kiya also had her own properties, including Maru Aten and a Sunshade. Her iconography was also very different from Nefertiti's.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can a titulary ever change?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys, I have copied the stuff below from a blog. I don't know who the translator/thorist is. But is what is being offered below feasible or not?


LEXILINE

NOFRETETE

Nefertiti = CHetite
The Hittite Queen
A problem of
NFR = CH

It is white clear that Egyptian NFR
is correctly guttural CH viz. nasal H
as in German "Mach 1, ich".


One of the great errors in Egyptology
is the case of the nasal passage and nose hieroglyph
(see the picture below)
today transcribed completely erroneously as
NFR - an impossible never-existent "phoneme".
What has happend is that a nasalized term
much as we add a g to spell the word song in English
to show the nasalized n
has been falsely made a part of the word by Egyptologists
as if we would now write song as son-nasal.
It is ridiculous scholarship.

Egyptologists first thought correctly
that it was a vowel-type of sound,
thinking erroneously again that the hieroglyph
represented lungs and windpipe.
(See Maria Carmela Betrò in Heilige Zeichen,
Gustav Lübbe Verlag, Bergisch Gladbach, p. 123,
published originally as Geroglifici
by Arnoldo Mondadori Editore S.p.A. in Milan
now also available in English as Hieroglyphics).

Any view of the graphic (see below)
shows it clearly represents
the nose and nasal passage
and NOT the lungs and windpipe.
Are the Egyptologists blind?.


Indeed, ancient representations
showed two opening pipes of the nose.
LOOK AT THE PICTURE BELOW.
NFR is the nose and is not a windpipe and heart,
as Egyptologists today claim.


Their first hunch was right as to sound.
Indeed, the symbol means "nasalized breath"
which is also the meaning of the word it symbolized
i.e. NFR = Latvian ANtVARs = "opening",
and indeed only late in the Ptolemaic era is the term
nfrt [misread ! as ntfr] for "windpipe" in evidence.

Current Egyptology sees the sign as
"windpipe and heart" which Egyptologist Betrò notes to be
anatomically impossible.
The related Egyptian term r-ib
allegedly meaning "stomach"
is so clearly Indo-european RIB (German LEIB)
as to cast even more grave doubts
on the common sense of the Egyptological linguists
who relate it ALSO to the heart which is correctly
Latvian SIRDI, also in Pharaonic hieroglyphs as shRTy
where SIRDI is actually the locative grammatical form.

The related windpipe sign
transcribed as SM3 = SMR > SML
is Latvian SMIRds, SMARzha,
etc. meaning "ODOR, SMELL".
The hieroglyph today transcribed as "3"
is actually is a weak R viz. L sound
as some Egyptologists have suggested.

Hence, the Egyptian Queen Nofretete,
correctly reads "cHe-tit-te" (Latvian Edite)
i.e. "Hittite" Queen of the Amarna period,
as is logical.

This period is known for the
sudden change of style and religion
in the Pharaoh's Court
and the exchange of Amarna Letters
to the Hittite region.

Indeed, we know that Echnaton (Akhenaten)
obtained a Queen of the Amazons
around the Black or Caspian Sea
as his wife and he did so by force.
She was the HITTITE QUEEN.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry the pictures did not copy. If you go to LEXILINE - NOFRETETE you'll view them there.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And what about the cuneiform versions "Nafteta" (Nefertari) and "Napkhuriya" (Neferkheperure)?
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Orwell
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Robson, and what you're getting at is...?
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Meretseger
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orwell wrote:
Can a titulary ever change?


Sure. Sometimes titles are added sometimes lesser ones left out. What NEVER happens is that major titles like Chief Wife and Lady of the Two Lands are replaced by a lesser one like 'Great Beloved Wife'.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Should Nefertiti be Chetite? Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
Orwell wrote:
...The correct transcription of the hieroglyphic name of Nefertiti, as we have discovered, is in fact Chetite, i.e. the name means the Hittite Queen, ...

For this I would like to see the document. If someone makes a statement like this he should be able to explain it clearly to others?!


Dear Lutz:

The article was written by Andis Kaulins, who is a self professed "law-trained expert in the history of civilization who examines the alleged knowledge of mainstream historical science from the standpoint of evidence." I recall him from Usenet days where he posted some of the most ridiculous arguments that Egyptian was in fact an Indo-European language (drawing mainly upon Latvian to make connections (!)). I believe he is a "one language" theorist, albeit not a very good one.

Do a Google Groups search on "Andis Kaulins" and "Egypt" or "Egyptian" and you'll see what I mean.

In short, Kaulins has no support for these contentions.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks neseret. I am no expert on these things, but I thought the text I pasted here seemed a bit ambiguous. Nonetheless, the contention that Nefertiti might translate somehow as "Hittite Queen" was tantalising. I'm interested to know what the current consensus amongst Egyptologists is as to Nefertiti's racial background. And what does "Nefertiti" translate as in English.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orwell wrote:
... I have copied the stuff below from a blog. I don't know who the translator/thorist is. But is what is being offered below feasible or not? ...

Simply take: completely absurd. Even if there could be found in language research notes (which are not, to my knowledge) this nothing changes on the meaning / translation.

Here is the cartouche of Nefertiti from the sarcophagus of Akhenaten from Tell el-Amarna, today in Cairo Museum Garden :



And here, from Hannig : Grosses Handwörterbuch I (2006) p. 1178, in ancient Egyptian texts occupied countless, the name "Hatti" :



Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orwell wrote:
Thanks neseret. I am no expert on these things, but I thought the text I pasted here seemed a bit ambiguous. Nonetheless, the contention that Nefertiti might translate somehow as "Hittite Queen" was tantalising. I'm interested to know what the current consensus amongst Egyptologists is as to Nefertiti's racial background. And what does "Nefertiti" translate as in English.


We know absolutely nothing about Nefertiti's background, racial or otherwise. We can eliminate the possibility she was a member of the royal family as she never used the 'King's Daughter' or 'King's Sister' titles. There seems no good reason not to assume she was a native Egyptian, probably of high if not royal rank but we may never know the details.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orwell wrote:
... And what does "Nefertiti" translate as in English.

"Nefer-ti-iti (+ determinativ Gardiner B7; Queen with diadem and flower) Nefer-neferu-Iten" = "The beauty has come (determinativ) Nice is the beauty of the Aton".

Lutz
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