Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

How old is the Sphinx
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Sphinx
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
EgyptianRose
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Posts: 251
Location: Australia. Down Under.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:22 am    Post subject: How old is the Sphinx Reply with quote

I believed the Sphinx was approximately 4,500 years old and aparently so did Egyptologists and Archeaologists (around 2500 BC). Though some recent studies suggest the Sphinx was built as long ago as 7000BC there for 9000 years old WOW Shocked .

Though I have no idea how accurate this is? Aparently due to the pattern of rainfall and erosion on the limestone was aparently 9000 years old. a majority of Egyptologists utterly go against this theory with several reasons why. Here's a couple.

1.Upset the understanding of ancient civilastion, as there is no Ancient Egyptian evidence dating this early.

2. Also it only focuses only on one pacific type of erosion.
_________________
It is of course the hieght of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers!

Quote 'Amarna Sunset' by Aidan Dodson.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only real scientist who's argued in favor of a much older date for the Sphinx is Robert Schoch. He in fact believes the Sphinx dates to around 10,000 years ago. Schoch is an educated and professionally trained geologist, so naturally his hypothesis garnered some degree of interest when he presented it some years ago.

However, it's not only Egyptologists and archaeologists in general who dismiss Schoch's conclusions, but pretty much every other geologist and scientist who has studied the Sphinx. Schoch simply has no support in the wider professional community, nor even from his colleagues.

His hypothesis has found favor with fringe adherents, who's backing not only lacks value but serves only to damage Schoch's credibility, anyway.

As I understand it, Schoch studied certain geological features of the Sphinx but ignored a plethora of other evidence. His hypothesis suffered from a sort of fatal tunnel vision that was founded on an unrealistic premise in the first place.

For a more scholarly and credible study of the Sphinx, I would suggest the web pages of the Giza Plateau Mapping Project, specifically those concerning the Sphinx. Headed by Mark Lehner, the GPMP has studied many features of the Giza Plateau in a comprehensive and thorough capacity, concerning everything from archaeology to geology. In my opinion the GPMP has settled the issue and demonstrated beyond logical dispute that the Sphinx was not only carved in Khafre's time but was an integral part of his pyramid complex.
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
EgyptianRose
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Posts: 251
Location: Australia. Down Under.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great explanation! Smile Thankyou Kmt_sesh, I will be reading through that webpage shortly.. Smile
_________________
It is of course the hieght of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers!

Quote 'Amarna Sunset' by Aidan Dodson.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome, EgyptianRose. I'm glad to be of assistance.

After my post earlier this day I was thinking more about Robert Schoch. I knew nothing of the man prior to his "redating" of the Sphinx, so I'm not sure what his motivations were. All I know is that a visit to his website and his especially to the page on his publications, reveals how far Schoch has divorced himself from proper research and the scientific method.

It's sad when that happens.

I've always wondered if he had fringe leanings prior to his Sphinx hypothesis, or if his journey into the dark and murky deep-end occurred after publishing his Sphinx hypothesis. Idea
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
EgyptianRose
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Posts: 251
Location: Australia. Down Under.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is most unfortunate, when a well educated intellectual as Robert Schoch on the topic of Ancient Egypt, only uses minor aspects of evidence to create theories. Rightly debunked as soon as they appeared I'm assuming?

I must ask... is this a similiar occurance as to Zahi Hawass? I still dont completely undestand the faults made by Zahi Hawass as yet.

I didn't think it was possible that the Sphinx was over 9000 years old. Luckily all is clear now.
_________________
It is of course the hieght of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers!

Quote 'Amarna Sunset' by Aidan Dodson.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
EgyptianRose
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Posts: 251
Location: Australia. Down Under.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just reading some of the information you guided me to about the Sphinx, topic "The Sphinx within Giza geology" The site stated that we label the Sphinx's geological layers member I, member II and member III
and that member III is is softer at the neck and harder at the head. Does this suggest that the head and the neck of the Sphinx are over all softer than the rest of the body of the Sphinx?

I suppose that could be a contribution as to why the sphinx's nose vanished? Which leads me into my next question. ( I apologize for spamming you with questions, my knowledge about the Sphinx is some what low). Did Nepoleon actually shoot the nose of the Sphinx ? I always thought it was a myth.

The site you led me to is very detailing and easy to understand. Thankyou. Smile
_________________
It is of course the hieght of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers!

Quote 'Amarna Sunset' by Aidan Dodson.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EgyptianRose wrote:
It is most unfortunate, when a well educated intellectual as Robert Schoch on the topic of Ancient Egypt, only uses minor aspects of evidence to create theories. Rightly debunked as soon as they appeared I'm assuming?

I must ask... is this a similiar occurance as to Zahi Hawass? I still dont completely undestand the faults made by Zahi Hawass as yet.

I didn't think it was possible that the Sphinx was over 9000 years old. Luckily all is clear now.


I can still vaguely recall when Schoch went public with his hypothesis on the Sphinx. Almost immediately, yes, there was a chorus of specialists and geologists who spoke out against him. Schoch has never achieved support from the wider scientific community.

I'm not sure what you mean about Hawass. As much of an oddball as Hawass tends to be, he's still a solid researcher and has never ventured into the world of the fringe. In fact, in his career Hawass spent a fair amount of time trying to educate people about why fringe arguments should not be taken seriously in the first place. Because of this, fringe pom-pom wavers spent a considerable amount of time trying to paint Hawass as some kind of boogyman who was out to hide "the truth" from the masses.

Where Hawass often stumbled was in public appearances and interviews. For instance, his insistence that KV63 must be the tomb of Kiya was not only frowned on by the Egyptological community but never had an iota of corroborative evidence in the first place. But I've read a lot of the books and papers Hawass has authored, and for the most part I think they're solid. The guy just needs to avoid TV cameras--which should be easier now that he's no longer the Minister of Antiquities (or whatever the title might go by this week).
_________________


Visit my blog!


Last edited by kmt_sesh on Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EgyptianRose wrote:
I was just reading some of the information you guided me to about the Sphinx, topic "The Sphinx within Giza geology" The site stated that we label the Sphinx's geological layers member I, member II and member III
and that member III is is softer at the neck and harder at the head. Does this suggest that the head and the neck of the Sphinx are over all softer than the rest of the body of the Sphinx?

I suppose that could be a contribution as to why the sphinx's nose vanished? Which leads me into my next question. ( I apologize for spamming you with questions, my knowledge about the Sphinx is some what low). Did Nepoleon actually shoot the nose of the Sphinx ? I always thought it was a myth.

The site you led me to is very detailing and easy to understand. Thankyou. Smile


Yes, the neck and head of the Sphinx are composed of Member III limestone, while the body is Member I and Member II (mostly the latter). Member III is a softer stone, but that doesn't mean weaker. Member I and Member II are much harder limestone, but also a lot more brittle, and most of the erosion problems have occurred in the Member I and Member II layers.

The face, composed of the softer Member III, is remarkably well preserved. That the nose fell off is not all that surprising, given that it represented a large chunk of unsupported weight completely exposed to the elements.

Napoleon's blasting off the nose is nothing more than a legend. There is nothing to prove it's true. Remember, Napoleon brought more than 100 scientists, artisans, and historians to study Egypt while the French were invading it, so it seems unlikely that he'd go around blowing things up at the same time. Most likely the nose fell off from natural causes, and probably long before Napoleon existed.

Your questions are not spam, EgyptianRose. Don't worry yourself about that. I'm glad you like the website. I've also enjoyed it. It's very straight forward and interesting. Wink
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
EgyptianRose
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Posts: 251
Location: Australia. Down Under.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I havn't yet read one of Zahi Hawass's books, I was recently going to, though instead chose two other rather interesting books. About Zahi Hawass,I meant there seems to be a lot of negativity surrounding Zahi Hawass, as if he has done something extremely wrong. Though nothing I have heard yet is so devastating Idea

Kmt_sesh wrote: "That the nose fell off is not all that surprising, given that it represented a large chunk of unsupported weight completely exposed to the elements."

Right, I never thought of that before. In any case I assumed that Nepoleon blowing of the Sphinx's nose was nothing more than a myth. After all he was in Egypt studying the history and attempting to benefit the history, not to destroy it and blow it up? ha.

Sorry. I would have replied sooner but my computer seemed to have gone on strike for some time Smile Thankyou once again for your response. Very helpfull.
_________________
It is of course the hieght of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers!

Quote 'Amarna Sunset' by Aidan Dodson.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ikon
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree 100% that Sphinx is integral part of Khafre's complex and is from that time. There is a book, probably very familiar to all, but not mentioned in this thread, by Paul Jordan. Riddles of the Sphinx, that completely blows away all the fantasists.

About Hawass, perhaps a thread on the most toe curling of his performances on TV. Or perhaps not, for reasons of it being simply too dreadful........
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ikon wrote:
I would agree 100% that Sphinx is integral part of Khafre's complex and is from that time. There is a book, probably very familiar to all, but not mentioned in this thread, by Paul Jordan. Riddles of the Sphinx, that completely blows away all the fantasists.

About Hawass, perhaps a thread on the most toe curling of his performances on TV. Or perhaps not, for reasons of it being simply too dreadful........


If in your description of "toe-curling" performances you're talking about Chasing Mummies, I think it's best not to bring it up. Indeed, it's best to forget about it.

Good grief I hated that show! Laughing
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ikon
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had thought of "live" documentary with German team sending robot up shaft in Great Pyramid. The Nat Geo girl presenter was clearly very disgusted by something he did or said. I think my mind has blanked this out it was so horrendous Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ikon wrote:
I had thought of "live" documentary with German team sending robot up shaft in Great Pyramid. The Nat Geo girl presenter was clearly very disgusted by something he did or said. I think my mind has blanked this out it was so horrendous Laughing


Was that the Upuat robot project some years ago or something newer? It's hard to keep track with Zahi in the TV camera.

Man, now that he's in retirement, it's going to be hard for Zahi. In all of the Egypt specials going forward, he'll probably be in the background jumping up and down and waving his arms for attention.
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ikon
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, is was Upuat. I think it was the second attempt, Upuat2, that discovered "secret" door etc. It was long programme, several hours, and live in my time zone. Certainly his "Berlusconi" moment would have been edited out if it was recorded programme. Perhaps to be fair to him, when revolution was happening last year, I was looking at his blog everyday, sometimes several times a day.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3757
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ikon wrote:
... Upuat ... It was long programme, several hours, and live in my time zone. ...

It was then claimed. But everybody who ever was at Giza site and inside the Great Pyramide should have noted that this was a lie. As far as I know only one Egyptologist dared to express this clearly : Prof. Dietrich Wildung, then director of the Egyptian Museum in Berlin. The result was the revival of the demand for return of the Nefertiti bust by Hawass and a ban on Wildung for excavations in Egypt. The latter however did not matter for him, because he is working for decades in the north of Sudan.

Greetings, Lutz.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Sphinx All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group