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Who is she?
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EgyptianRose
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:09 am    Post subject: Who is she? Reply with quote



I know the mummy on the far left is Queen Tiye and the mummy on the far right is supposedly Tutankhamun's mother, Who is the female mummy in the middle then?

I have never come a cross this photo before and now I am intrigued about it. Smile
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It is of course the hieght of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers!

Quote 'Amarna Sunset' by Aidan Dodson.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Who is she? Reply with quote

EgyptianRose wrote:


I know the mummy on the far left is Queen Tiye and the mummy on the far right is supposedly Tutankhamun's mother, Who is the female mummy in the middle then? ...

Storeroom J(c) in KV 35 - Amenhotep II, also known as the second royal cachet. Two women and a boy (JE 61070 - 2). Who he was is not really known. Maybe a son of Amenhotep II or the prince Thutmosis, son of Teje and Amenhotep III, older brother of Akhenaton.

Greetings, Lutz.
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EgyptianRose
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My apologies Lutz, it appears the boy mummy has hair which made me assume it was a female mummy: lol: though it's most likely a boy styled side lock? The mummy must be rather young in any case...

Also as I was searching I came across this image



which made me have my doubts that the mummy was in fact a female but a male Smile

You can tell from this image that the male is much younger than the female mummies he lays beside, also you can see that queen Tiye has no feet! Shocked
[/u]
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It is of course the hieght of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers!

Quote 'Amarna Sunset' by Aidan Dodson.
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Meretseger
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best guess is the boy is a royal prince. Given the identities of the Elder and Younger ladies (Queen Tiye and a daughter) it seems likely that the boy is also a member of their immediate family. Prince Thutmose maybe.
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EgyptianRose
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the enormity of the image. This is awkward considering the thread's title is 'Who is she' when really it should be 'who is he' aha: lol: My apologies.

Don't you think there should be more DNA test done on the 18th dynasty mummies? The previous DNA tests seemed to have produced more questions rather than answered questions! If it's possible clean up some un resolved mysteries of the 18th dynasties, The famous mummies or the "more important mummies" always seem to be the focus of the DNA testing and mummy identification e.g. Hatshepsut, Tutankhamun, Akhenaten etc I believe if they concentrated on the lesser known royal Egyptians of the 18th dynasty then they might be able to put some pieces together on the 18th dynasty, What do you think?
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It is of course the hieght of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers!

Quote 'Amarna Sunset' by Aidan Dodson.
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herper
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wish they would do that. Who knows, some of those lesser knows could be pharaohs and queens that are identified wrong
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EgyptianRose
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My apologies if I have posted this numerous times in a variety of different explanations, my mini laptop has decided to stop being loyal towards me and log me out automatically when I post my reply!

Agreed Herper! Though I doubt the Egyptologist and etc have sufficient funds to support another Dna tests at this current moment on various mummies, Unfortunatey! perhaps further DNA tests will be held in the near future? =)

If you were to choose a mummy to do DNA testing on which one would you choose? I personally would choose either KV21 A and KV21 B to see wether or not one of them two could possibly be Ankhesenamun! I know it is considered that KV21 B is Ankhesenamun, though I am not 100 % convinced as of yet, not until further DNA tests are held! aha sorry for my long reply, it wasn't this long the previous times, I attempted to post a reply Confused Smile
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It is of course the hieght of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers!

Quote 'Amarna Sunset' by Aidan Dodson.
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I had to choose a royal mummy to test it would probably be Ahmose.

The mummy seems securely identified but this small rather delicate man bears little resemblence to his purported father, the tall (for the period) robust, Seqenenre Tao. He's not circumcised too which is odd and his hands are not crossed over his breast while his son's, Amonhotep I are.

I think what really should happen--and it would take a whole boatload of money--not to mention the ability to navigate the touchy political issues, would be to DNA test and CT-SCAN every mummy from the royal caches and those found in the valley of the kings and queens and perhaps also some mummies of the non-royal elite that were found in situ--the parents of Senenmut come to mind but there are others and develop a database of information on each individual.

What you'd get is a profile of the genetics and health and lifestyle of a group of people of a partular place, period and social class. As with all these studies it would probably raise as many or more questions than it answers but it would be fascinating stuff.
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i don't know if they will ever be able to get better samples from the kv 21 mummies.

i would start with testing thutmose IV. see if he is the father of amenhotep III for one. i don't understand why tiye's parents were included and thutmose IV was not. once you can prove thutmose Iv is who we think he is, you can test the line back to thutmose II, and then test him against 'hatshepsut', and the mummy called 'thutmose I'. that mummy is supposedly the son of amenhotep I, so it would be interesting, once you've provent he thutmoside line, to see if they are linked witht he previous dynasty.
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karnsculpture
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The boy has been DNA tested as part of the second round of work that was happening in 2009/10 but as with so many things from Hawass tenure, the results have yet to be published. There is a photo out there of Hawass with this mummy in a lab, if I can find it I'll post the link (it's probably on his site).
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EgyptianRose
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and how annoying is it not being able to know about these DNA results! What are the reasons for Zahi Hawass keeping the results from the public? So much we don't know, that's being held from us Confused

I just get very confused about the mummies of KV21, the DNA results seem un-clear and just damn right confusing! Has it been 100 % proven that KV21 B is the mother of Tutankhamun's children or not? Or have I got the wrong mummy from the two aha Laughing Further DNA results would just give more clarity as to who is who between the KV21 mummies and ofcourse many more!

Unfortunately Kylejustin is probably correct further DNA tests done on the KV21 mummies is more than likely near impossible, though I still have hope it is possible.
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It is of course the hieght of irony that, after this intensive campaign to expunge them from the annals of Egypt, the Amarna pharaohs are today probably the most recognized of all the country's ancient rulers!

Quote 'Amarna Sunset' by Aidan Dodson.
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herper
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

seems Old Dr H didnt like releasing info if he didnt like the findings, or needed time to claim the glory. Lets hope his replacement is better with releasing data
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kylejustin
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well said herper.
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Sothis
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

herper wrote:
seems Old Dr H didnt like releasing info if he didnt like the findings, or needed time to claim the glory. Lets hope his replacement is better with releasing data


His current replacement does not appear to be very keen on releasing data either.

But maybe it is not only up to him to decide what is released and what is not. In an online interview given by Dr. Pusch from some time ago (which for the life of me I cannot find now, sorry) he states that the Egyptian government has reserved the right to decide on the publication of data that relates to the pharaohs` origins. That`s no joke, it really seems to be a politically explosive matter!

But I think they could be a bit less fussy with data that reveales only the family relationships and diseases.
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sothis wrote:
herper wrote:
seems Old Dr H didnt like releasing info if he didnt like the findings, or needed time to claim the glory. Lets hope his replacement is better with releasing data


His current replacement does not appear to be very keen on releasing data either.

But maybe it is not only up to him to decide what is released and what is not. ...

All teams working in Egypt are required to get prior publication of findings and results of there work the approval of the government, represented by the SCA. This was valid before Hawass and after his dismissal it was not changed. This condition is part of the concession contracts.

Sothis wrote:
... In an online interview given by Dr. Pusch from some time ago (which for the life of me I cannot find now, sorry) he states that the Egyptian government has reserved the right to decide on the publication of data that relates to the pharaohs` origins. ...

See my inital post here : Dr. C. Pusch, German human geneticist to DNA investigations.

As I understand it, however, it goes about another project. Next to the investigations of the royal mummies there seems to be also a project studying the racial composition / origin of the Egyptians from the Predynastics.

Greetings, Lutz.
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