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Can you translate?
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Kemet
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:04 am    Post subject: Can you translate? Reply with quote

Udjai,

Ranuten;
(Wa Smile En pehuitef
(Snau Smile Ni rekh ro
(Khom'nt Smile Aku okem
(Fdoou Smile Si ioh

Eis, na pu mudu (pafa su djed ero eneh) en Nsubitiu nebu!
"Di nef heqi Kemet Deshret em isu iry" -kemkem
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Psusennes III
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:12 am    Post subject: Re: Can you translate? Reply with quote

Kemet wrote:
Udjai,

Ranuten;
(Wa Smile En pehuitef
(Snau Smile Ni rekh ro
(Khom'nt Smile Aku okem
(Fdoou Smile Si ioh

Eis, na pu mudu (pafa su djed ero eneh) en Nsubitiu nebu!
"Di nef heqi Kemet Deshret em isu iry" -kemkem

Question Question Question Shocked oh yeah straight away and I have 2 little questions...
    1 In which language do you want me to translate it?
    2 In which language is the original text?

    Sorry I can't help you, but off course maybe someone else will be be able to.

    GN & GL
    T.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Can you translate? Reply with quote

Kemet wrote:
Udjai,
Ranuten;
(Wa : ) En pehuitef
(Snau : ) Ni rekh ro
(Khom'nt : ) Aku okem
(Fdoou : ) Si ioh

Eis, na pu mudu (pafa su djed ero eneh) en Nsubitiu nebu!
"Di nef heqi Kemet Deshret em isu iry" -kemkem


Could you give the original form (hieroglyphic) or a MdC form?
All I can make up of it is

WD?i
r'-n-?tn
W3-n p3-hWi-t-f
s-n-aW-ni-rch-r
x-mn-t-?kW km
??? s-iah

I'd say it's a description of a man, his titles, descent, qualities. Probably a god, but you can't translate a text like this. Since it's following a version of what could be the spoken version of ancient Egyptian. Could you at least tell me what kind of Egyptian it is? Old, middle or late? My guess would be 18th dynasty's somewhere on the verge of Middle to Late Egyptian. I could do more if you could come up with something decent? Wink
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Can you translate? Reply with quote

Eis, na pu mudu (pafa su djed ero eneh) en Nsubitiu nebu!
"Di nef heqi Kemet Deshret em isu iry" -kemkem

pf sw Dd r-nhh
n nsw-bityw nbw

It's too frustrating to translate, I'm sorry. Smile
I know that's a typical royal description, but yet i can't make much of it.
It's something about "forever and ever (of?) the lord, the king of both lands".

The last sentence "who is given rulership over Kemet and Deshret (something something)" seems to me to show this is not an original sentence? Kemet and Deshret weren't used so frequently to describe Egypt in an official text. Did you make this text yourself? Confused
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Kemet
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Can you translate? Reply with quote

Segereh wrote:
Eis, na pu mudu (pafa su djed ero eneh) en Nsubitiu nebu!
"Di nef heqi Kemet Deshret em isu iry" -kemkem

pf sw Dd r-nhh
n nsw-bityw nbw

It's too frustrating to translate, I'm sorry. Smile
I know that's a typical royal description, but yet i can't make much of it.
It's something about "forever and ever (of?) the lord, the king of both lands".

The last sentence "who is given rulership over Kemet and Deshret (something something)" seems to me to show this is not an original sentence? Kemet and Deshret weren't used so frequently to describe Egypt in an official text. Did you make this text yourself? Confused


I think it's modern Coptic.

It's taken from the book Black Athena: The Afroasiatic Roots of Classical Civilization (The Fabrication of Ancient Greece 1785-1985) by Martin Bernal.

Martin Bernal is a jewish scholar.

He writes that the civilization of ancient Egypt, the civilization of ancient Egypt, the first that history records, was actually black African in origin.

Black Athena argued that the development of Greek civilization was heavily influenced by Afro-Asiatic civilizations.

Though i didn't read his book, i know the Egyptians called their land Kemet, meaning “the Black Land,” a reference to the dark, fertile soil that remained after the Nile floodwaters had receded. They also used another term, Deshret, or “the Red Land,” a designation for the desert sands that burned under the blazing Sun.

Thus i don't know how frequently these terms were really used.
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Kemet
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:29 am    Post subject: Re: Can you translate? Reply with quote

Segereh wrote:
Kemet wrote:
Udjai,
Ranuten;
(Wa : ) En pehuitef
(Snau : ) Ni rekh ro
(Khom'nt : ) Aku okem
(Fdoou : ) Si ioh

Eis, na pu mudu (pafa su djed ero eneh) en Nsubitiu nebu!
"Di nef heqi Kemet Deshret em isu iry" -kemkem


Could you give the original form (hieroglyphic) or a MdC form?
All I can make up of it is

WD?i
r'-n-?tn
W3-n p3-hWi-t-f
s-n-aW-ni-rch-r
x-mn-t-?kW km
??? s-iah

I'd say it's a description of a man, his titles, descent, qualities. Probably a god, but you can't translate a text like this. Since it's following a version of what could be the spoken version of ancient Egyptian. Could you at least tell me what kind of Egyptian it is? Old, middle or late? My guess would be 18th dynasty's somewhere on the verge of Middle to Late Egyptian. I could do more if you could come up with something decent? Wink


Well this came from this board... I think the text was just invented...

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/000996.html
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is. The guy who wrote it on that forum just said he wanted to show off how fluently he spoke Egyptian. *sigh* Nevermind, there will always be people like that, but it really screws up the language.

Funny quote from the same forum, same thread:

Quote:
Posted by: "Kemet"
Subject: Can you translate?
Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:04 am
(...)

replies: sorry I can't help you, but off course maybe someone else will be be able to.

reply by Segereh: The last sentence "who is given rulership over Kemet and Deshret (something something)" seems to me to show this is not an original sentence? Kemet and Deshret weren't used so frequently to describe Egypt in an official text. Did you make this text yourself

In case anyone is wondering where Orionix (aka Kemet@egyptiandreams) latest plagiarisation came from..... http://forum.egyptiandreams.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=9848

[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 15 November 2004).]


Hèhè, I don't mind you quoting my remarks, but at least mention my name? Wink
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Kemet
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Segereh wrote:
It is. The guy who wrote it on that forum just said he wanted to show off how fluently he spoke Egyptian. *sigh* Nevermind, there will always be people like that, but it really screws up the language.


Hèhè, I don't mind you quoting my remarks, but at least mention my name? Wink[/quote]

Sorry, i won't don't this next time...

Kemet really meant Black land and Deshret Red land, though i don't know how frequent these terms were really used.

These guys think that Ancient Egypt was predominated by black Africans. I have no problem with that. At the end people believe what they want to believe. We know that blacks always had part in Egypt.
However the Egyptian art itself demonstrates that the Egyptians were by the majority brown Africans.






(notice brown and olive-skinned people are distinguished... )






The guys on Egypt Search are just race obsessed Idiots.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys have hit on a topic that tends to boil my blood. I know this thread is already growing old, but maybe we can breathe new life into it. I've studied hieroglyphs and much of what was presented seems like gibberish, though there are some recognizable words. It would help to see the glyphs themselves, of course. Without those we're invariably at a dead end.

As fas as the Egyptians-were-all-black argument goes, it is nonsense. Should someone tell you this, you can outright dismiss him, as much as you may dismiss anyone who says the Egyptians were European (don't laugh, I've heard this one, too).

Many black people, especially those residing in the United States, suffer from a severe identity crises, as far as geneology goes. Those whose ancestors were shipped over here as slaves simply have no idea who their original people are, so people such as those in this group you guys have been discussing are desperate to grasp onto something geneological to call their own. It's sad and I myself cannot know what that must be like, but to lower yourselves to the status as hokesters and historical revionists only further damages your credibility.

Please, dismiss them outright.

Egypt, in truth, was probably the most cosmopolitan of ancient Middle East lands. There were many blacks in all levels of society. I think anneke noted elsewhere that the elite bodyguards of pharaoh, the Medjay, were usually black, and she is of course correct. Many people in the highest echelons of government were black. But the fact is the majority of the Egyptian population was of Semitic blood; they looked much like the Muslims of modern Egypt but of course there's no physical or geneological tie between most modern Egyptians and their ancient counterparts. Arabic peoples are Semitic, Jews are Semitic, most ancient Egyptians were Semitic. Really, all you need to do is study their physical remains--their mummies. I'm around them all the time at our museum, and they're clearly not of black people (though the embalmer's resin has rendered them very dark).

Now, the entire 25th Dynasty was ruled by black pharaohs, the people from Kush, and it was a time of artistic and cultural revival for all of Egypt. They did great things. But to date those were the only black pharaohs for which evidence exists (other royal family members are another matter).

As far as Kmt and Dshrt, the Egyptians often referred to their country as Kmt (the Black Land). They also called it Tawy (the Two Lands). They most certainly did not call it Dshrt (the Red Land), which was their word for the desert wastelands and represented the hostile and chaotic aspects of their world--Dshrt was ruled by none other than the chaos god Set.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we had posts on this board suggesting that the Egyptians were a mix of North African, middle Eastern and some black african influence. I'm pretty sure they were a mixed bunch, despite the socalled 'dislike' of foreigners which I have learnt is just a fallacy because they didn't hate all foreigners, just the ones who invaded.

I have seen one site saying the Egyptians were European, which I think is not true, well not until about the Greek/Roman times anyway. But just this moment now I saw an article (not on any race biased site, but on Tour Egypt, believe it or not) saying something I thought was truly bizarre-that the Nubians are 'predominantly caucasian'!!! Shocked They are black africans from Sudan, aren't they? *is puzzled*
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Kemet
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are agreed to be a multiracial civilization.

Also in the Neolithic (9000 years ago), Afro-Asiatic speaking pastoralists from the Near East migrated from east to west, probably through the Nille Valley of Egypt.

The Capsian (it is spelled Gafsa; a town is southern Tunisia) industry of southern Tunisia had very much to do with these migrants.
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Psusennes
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jumping back a bit to the original question. . .

There are a few bits that I can translate off the top of my head:

Di nef = gave to him
su dd= said (to) you
udjai= stability (with ankh etc.)
heqi= magics

That's about it. It looks like some strange combination of Egyptian transliteration and keyboard mashing.
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Psusennes
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry- just realised that that was alll wrong!

Di nef= sedjemenef form of he gives= he gave
su dd= something to do with "he" and "said" (strange order)
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right that it is odd if this is what the translation is trying to get at. The word "su" is a dependent pronoun, and as such would be attached to the verb "djed" as in djed=sw, ("he says" or "he recites") just as in your example di.n=f ("he gave").

Like I mentioned earlier, though, without the actual hieroglyphs, much of what this man wrote, which started this whole thread, is completely suspect. I've looked and looked at the text Segereh provided, and much of it looks like nonsense. There are recongnizable words, but they're generally out of context to Egyptian syntax.

As for "heqi," the proper spelling would be hekau (I don't even recognize an Egyptian word spelled "heqi," but I certainly don't know them all!). In the plural sense this would mean "magic spells," and together with other elements of the sentence I think the guy is trying to say something to the effect of:

"He gave magic [magic spells] to the ancient ones thereof the Black Land and the Red Land" (di.n=f hkau n isw kmt dshrt iry).

In my attempt at figuring this out, isw makes sense in the definition of "ancient ones" in the genetive form, and iry at the end of the sentence belongs there as long as it's an adverbial form ("thereto" or "thereof"). If it's supposed to be iri, all bets are off, as that's one of the most commonly used words in Egyptian and could mean many diffirent things, though it doesn't fit neatly here.The preposition m is incorrectly used and should be n, if my version is an accurate translation of what this guy was saying.

Again, without the hieroglyphs we're all just playing games here. That's okay, though. Games are fun.
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Psusennes
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The word "su" is a dependent pronoun, and as such would be attached to the verb "djed" as in djed=sw"

As far as I am aware, only suffix pronouns and nouns can act as the subject of a verb (except in the case of adjectival predicate). For example, a personal pronoun can be used as the subject of the verb 'nefer', but most certainly not with 'djed'. Of course the personal pronouns have other uses too, but in this case using a personal pronoun makes no grammatical sense.

I think that the translation is a bit 'confused' to say the least.
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