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Help with reading a word

 
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Horus2
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:05 am    Post subject: Help with reading a word Reply with quote

Hi there.

I am trying to translate a text from a stela which is relatively easy but i am still stuck on one word. The text is in the link below:

http://bgegypt.net/dwnd_files/stela.jpg

The word is on the second line between 3 and 4. The text is something like this: ...Osiris Khenty Imenty master of Abydos and then follow this "xtf" which i can not understand. I think that it could be an epithet for Osiris Khenty Imenty, but i can't really find it. My opinion is that it is not part of the next sentence because it start with verb, but still this xtf can be some kind of particle or preposition. For example it may mean: when the King set sail to to overthrow Kash...

What do you think?
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Horus2
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found it...

It is xft not xtf, and it is a preposition. The meaning is: opposite, in accordance with, adverbially, accordingly.
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Horus2
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have made small mistake which change the meaning. Please fix it, if it is possible. "Adverbially" should have ":", not ",".
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Aset
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xft

TLA indicates:
- in front of (someone)
- when; while
- in accordance with (a command)
- at the time of
- when; at the time of

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Horus2
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Aset, you are aways more than helpfull.
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Horus2
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is another one:

wDA, the determinative is boat, i understand the general meaning. What i do not understand is this: Is it "set sail" or "sailing"? The sentence is something like this: xft wDA nb Hr sxrt KAs.
In the first case it should be: When the king was sailing to .... , and in the second case: When the king set sail to...
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Aset
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nb or king?

wDA is a verb.
The ship P1 is sometimes the abbreviation for 'm-xt' - downstream; northwards

xft wDA m-xd nb (?) Hr sxrt kAS
when the lord (?) proceeded downstream to overthrow Kush

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Aset,
Yes it is king. Nb is often used for king also, but in that case i have just replaced the king's name, title, and so on with nb.

That translation of yours is, as usual, very accurate, thank you. However in this case maybe i had to provide more of the text, and context. To overthrow Kush, the king must proceed south or upstream. There is no point to go downstream or north with such a purpose, unless the king is somewhere south of Kush which is not the case. If we accept P1 as a "m-xt" abbreviation, the translation should be: when the king proceeded downstream after overthrowing Kush. Hr+infinitive actually have such a meaning (Gardiner - 304; Hoch - 57; P.Allen 14.11). But I think that this is not also the case, because that would be some point in time after, this campaign (this is 4-th campaign of Sesostris III in Nubia), for which we have an inscription (some 3-4 months later) which tell us that the king is somewhere around the island of Uronarti, this time proceeding downstream.
Thatís why I accept P1 as a determinative. However an interesting question emerge, what would be an abbreviation for upstream? And the question still remain, should we accept wDA as an action (sailing, traveling), or as a starting action (set sail, proceed)?
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Horus2
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It just it occurs to me this:
If P1 represent m-xt, it should stay after the subject! The word order of this, and any other simple verbal sentence is verb->subject->adverbial phrase. xft is just a conjunction.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Horus2 wrote:
However an interesting question emerge, what would be an abbreviation for upstream?
P2
xnti - to sail upstream; to travel southwards

Horus2 wrote:
And the question still remain, should we accept wDA as an action (sailing, traveling), or as a starting action (set sail, proceed)?

Source TLA
- Stela of Khusobek (Manchester 3306), line C.1:
wDA Hm =f m-xd r sxr.t mnT.w sT.t
His Majesty proceeded (lit. The proceeding by His Majesty) northward to smite the Asiatics.
Horus2 wrote:
If P1 represent m-xt, it should stay after the subject!
OK!
P1 is determinative

Horus2 wrote:
However in this case maybe i had to provide more of the text, and context.!
Yes Exclamation

Aset
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