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Hatchepsut Obese?
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Robson
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And maybe also from Hat's team...
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Meretseger
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That possibility has occurred to me too, Naunacht.

*NOT* being the biological mother of the infant king may have significantly weakened Hatshepsut's right to be his regent if he had powerful relatives to contest her. As co-regent and pharaoh in her own right she was unassailable.
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Robson
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isis' folks were probably coopted by all the queen's men. Another interesting detail is that the late king's mother (Mutnofret) was a King's Daughter, supplanted by someone who was not (Ahmose).
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kylejustin
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, it's all very interesting how the old books say hatshepsut is a descendant of ahmose nefertari, but never give evidence for that thought. mutnofret is the one of royal blood, so i think she may be the descendant of ahmose nefertari......hatshepsut inherited the title 'god's wife' of amun, and i wonder if this is because thutmose I and mutnofret did not have a daughter or a surviving one. a king's daughter is better than none, even is she is not of your blood..
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Naunacht
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robson wrote:
Isis' folks were probably coopted by all the queen's men. Another interesting detail is that the late king's mother (Mutnofret) was a King's Daughter, supplanted by someone who was not (Ahmose).


Interesting royal family dynamics there for sure. You could conjure up quite a soap opera there.

To be perfectly honest, though, do we know for sure if Mutnofret was still alive when Thutmose I became king? If she'd died before he became king it would have been perfectly normal for him to remarry.

Ahmose Nefertari clearly supported Thutmose I. Her name is almost as prominent as his on the text of his coronation announcement as his is. That would seem unlikely if he'd offended the Ahmosid family by promoting Ahmose (his own sister? a royal cousin?) over Mutnofret.

Coronation decree of Thutmose I.

http://www.cs.st-andrews.ac.uk/~mjn/egyptian/texts/corpus/pdf/CoronationTuthmosisI.pdf
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Robson
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naunacht wrote:

To be perfectly honest, though, do we know for sure if Mutnofret was still alive when Thutmose I became king? If she'd died before he became king it would have been perfectly normal for him to remarry.


That's a good explanation for why Mutnofret was not entitled as "Great Royal Wife", but at same time her son Wadjmose had his name placed in cartouche, as should deserve a grandson of the great Ahmose. Maybe the dynastic continuity was invested not in Thutmose himself but on his sons by the late Mutnofret. The association of members of his own family through queen Ahmose II was probably the price to be paid for his role. Thutmose's military skills was also possibly decisive in the process.
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Naunacht
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robson wrote:
Naunacht wrote:

To be perfectly honest, though, do we know for sure if Mutnofret was still alive when Thutmose I became king? If she'd died before he became king it would have been perfectly normal for him to remarry.


That's a good explanation for why Mutnofret was not entitled as "Great Royal Wife", but at same time her son Wadjmose had his name placed in cartouche, as should deserve a grandson of the great Ahmose. Maybe the dynastic continuity was invested not in Thutmose himself but on his sons by the late Mutnofret. The association of members of his own family through queen Ahmose II was probably the price to be paid for his role. Thutmose's military skills was also possibly decisive in the process.


Speaking of family dynamics, it is interesting that the one thing Hatshepsut in all her inscriptions, does not base her claim to the throne on is a descent from Ahmose or Ahmose Nefertari. You may be right that Thutmose I may have been considered something of an interim king, and it was his children who would continue the royal bloodline. If so, the marriage to Mutnofret must have taken place some years before the death of Amonhotep I--possibly even as far back as the reign of Ahmose, since Amonemose was old enough to accompany his father to Kush in year 2.
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