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Opening of the mouth & Hours of the night
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mvpapaioannou
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:36 pm    Post subject: Opening of the mouth & Hours of the night Reply with quote

Hi there,

Was wondering if we do have any information on the ceremony of the opening of the mouth in combination with the 12 hours of the night. What I am trying to find out is, on which hour of the night the ceremony occurred - did this matter or not? I am under the impression that this was done on a specific hour (saw it somewhere) but cannot find the source now.

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Lutz
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know it is not connected to a special hour of the night. It is a ritual, originally for giving life / activating the functions / the senses of statues (but also other objects, for example temple buildings) and is later (rise of the Osirian believe?) also done on mummys during the funeral ceremonies.

Here is something from

Barry Kemp : The Egyptian Book of the Dead. - London : Granta Books, 2007. - pp. 81 & 83-84 :



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Kaefra
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:15 am    Post subject: Opening the mouth Reply with quote

The Book of the Opening of the mouth has been translated many years ago and I have obtained a copy for Manchester England University Library.
Its all there to do it if you want. There wil of coure be a copy in the British Library if you cannot find one elsewhere
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And where in his book shows Budge (I assume you're talking about his work) a connection between the ritual of the opening of the mouth and the 12 hours of the night? Because that was probably the question by mvpapaioannou...

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Kaefra
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: opening the mouth Reply with quote

I have been through the book of the opening of the mouth and can't find a reference to when it should be done. It is several hours long in any case. No reference in Budges Saite recension (20-23) to time either.

On a mummy this would have been done in daytime though with mourners and relatives present as part of a funeral.

As an initiation it could be short or long and would have many alternative forms. Does it matter? You may find a reference in the book of hours to the opening of the mouth I don't know as this book is dry and not particularly ritualistic and i haven't got a copy.

If you want to Come forth by Day - get texts - and do the rituals - understanding will surely follow its a long road.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: opening the mouth Reply with quote

Kaefra wrote:
... On a mummy this would have been done in daytime though with mourners and relatives present as part of a funeral. ...

With other words and as I still said (and to answer the question by mvpapaioannou), there is no connection / dependency between the ritual text ("book" is a term introduced by Budge) and the 12 hours of the night.

Lutz
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Kaefra
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject: Book of Hours Reply with quote

Lutz before you make your assertions you need to read the ' Book of Hours' from beginning to end, then come back and tell us that there is no reference to the Opening of the Mouth - I don't think there is but it is a long time since I have read it.
The hours is a bit of a ramble and not very riualistic though some people like it.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Book of Hours Reply with quote

Kaefra wrote:
Lutz before you make your assertions you need to read the ' Book of Hours' from beginning to end, ...

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia wrote:
"A book of hours is an illuminated, Christian devotional book that was popular among the Christians of Northern Europe during the Middle Ages. ...

So, I have absolut no idea about which ancient Egyptian "book" you are talking about. Ancient or the in modern Egyptology used title please.

Lutz
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, now I think I know what you mean. You speak about the ritual text which was recited by the "priests of the hour watch" in the embalming hall.

Also here: No, these texts have no relation to the ceremony of opening of the mouth on the mummy. This ritual took place after embalming was finished and the mummy was prepared (material ready) for burial. It was done for protection, idealization and lament of the embalmed corpse. Priests represented different gods who changed hourly and spoke the text.

The rites ​​during the day were offering of incense and ointment, at night libitation and using incense. In addition, slaughter sacrifices took place in the 5th and 6th hour of the day and in the 8th to the 10th hour of the night.

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Kaefra
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Book of Hours Reply with quote


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Book of Hours Reply with quote


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Book of hours Reply with quote

Apparently this book is on line i.e the book of hours [url]This is another Budge Book - callled the Book of the Am-duat
http://www.wisdomlib.org/egypt/book/the-book-of-am-tuat/index.html
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "Book of the Hidden Room" / "Book from what is in the Netherworld" (also known under the name Amduat) is a text composition from the early New Kingdom and was created specifically for the funeral of the kings of the early 18th Dynasty. It describes the journey of the sun god through the 12 hours of the night, during which he brings up the blessed dead and cared for them. He also punished and defeated his enemies there. In the 6th hour he unites around with his body (Osiris) to be young and powerful again. At the end of the 12th hours he is born new as the morning sun. No connection / mention with / of the ritual texts of the opening of the mouth ceremony.

For Budge see : neseret in Post: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:12 pm Post subject: Question about Budge's dictionaries...

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Kaefra
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: That is so Reply with quote

I am glad you have read the text of the Hours now Lutz. There is indeed no mention of opening the mouth in this text that I can find. i guess that ends it they belong to a slightly different cycle.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:54 am    Post subject: Re: That is so Reply with quote

Kaefra wrote:
I am glad you have read the text of the Hours now Lutz. ...

In case you're just talking about the Amduat here and now: that one I have read years ago and not only once. There are different so called "books" and other ancient Egyptian texts that have a relation to the hours of day and night. Thats why your term "text of the Hours" is not really helpful to understand what you are talking about and which text you mean...

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