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Diodorus Siculus: Source of Ancient Egyptian Civilization
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Chitu
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:11 am    Post subject: Diodorus Siculus: Source of Ancient Egyptian Civilization Reply with quote

I was curious about the opinions of others--who've spent more years studying the origins of the ancient Egyptian civilization--regarding the remarks made by Diodorus Siculus in his Library of History, Book III, chapter 1-7, pertaining to the origin of the ancient Egyptian civilization.

Here's the link to the aforementioned chapters:

http://wysinger.homestead.com/diodorus.html
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be really cautious about taking anything the Greek and Roman historians said about their ancient history at face value. They tried to make sense of the history of other people through their own cultural lens. They had had access to accounts and traditions that we do not but who's to say that these accounts and traditions were in any way accurate. It would be like taking the story of the Pilgrims landing at Plymouth Rock and extrapolating from it that all Americans descended from Puritans who fled England due to religious persecution.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naunacht wrote:
They had had access to accounts and traditions that we do not but who's to say that these accounts and traditions were in any way accurate.

The substance of these specific chapters in Book III has been validated by modern science. For instance, the oldest human remains have actually been unearthed by archeologists in Ethiopia, vindicating Diodorus Siculus' assertion that the Ethiopians were the first men to have lived on earth. I honestly do not in anyway even see how accuracy could be a factor with regards to these particular chapters.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Diodorus Siculus refers to "Ethiopians", who is he really talking about?
Is he referring to the kingdom of Kush, or people to the south of the Kingdom of Kush?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He specifically mentioned that from chapters I linked in the OP. Did you read them?
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neseret
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
When Diodorus Siculus refers to "Ethiopians", who is he really talking about?
Is he referring to the kingdom of Kush, or people to the south of the Kingdom of Kush?


As I recall, Roman maps refer to "Aethiopia" to any part of Africa with which they were unfamiliar, as in "here lies a land that is inhabited by dark peoples, and other unfamiliar areas." After all, the term "aethiop" is come the Greek, and means "burnt," so the Romans were lumping quite few different cultures and peoples together.

I used to know a URL to a reference which showed the Roman map with their worldview of "Aethiopia", but can't find it at the moment. However, in that map, "Aethiopia" covered a large expanse of Africa to the west of Egypt, dipping into sub-Saharan Africa, and ending close to the border of Morocco; it tended to areas that the Romans did not control, and thus became a reference for a large strange land of (in the Roman view) barbarians.

HTH.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thath he has used this term is uncontested. Anneke`s question probably aimed (in my view) more in the direction, if he really meant the same nation / people as we are today?

Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
When Diodorus Siculus refers to "Ethiopians", who is he really talking about?
Is he referring to the kingdom of Kush, or people to the south of the Kingdom of Kush?

sigh...
"These, then, are the customs which prevail among the Ethiopians who dwell in their capital (Napata) and those who inhabit both the island of Meroe and the land adjoining Egypt."
-Diodorus Siculus
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chitu wrote:
anneke wrote:
When Diodorus Siculus refers to "Ethiopians", who is he really talking about?
Is he referring to the kingdom of Kush, or people to the south of the Kingdom of Kush?

"These, then, are the customs which prevail among the Ethiopians who dwell in their capital (Napata) and those who inhabit both the island of Meroe and the land adjoining Egypt." - Diodorus Siculus

So, he is reffering to Upper Nubia, the area of present-day Northern Sudan... "Ethiopians" do live a little bit more to the south, as far as I know. By the way, Napata (the original settlement) was founded around 1450 B.C. by Thutmosis III.

Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
Chitu wrote:
anneke wrote:
When Diodorus Siculus refers to "Ethiopians", who is he really talking about?
Is he referring to the kingdom of Kush, or people to the south of the Kingdom of Kush?

"These, then, are the customs which prevail among the Ethiopians who dwell in their capital (Napata) and those who inhabit both the island of Meroe and the land adjoining Egypt." - Diodorus Siculus

So, he is reffering to Upper Nubia, the area of present-day Northern Sudan... "Ethiopians" do live a little bit more to the south, as far as I know. By the way, Napata (the original settlement) was founded around 1450 B.C. by Thutmosis III.

Greetings, Lutz.


Have you read the link I posted in my original post, Lutz? Do you understand that Diodorus went out of his way to give a pithy description of whom he was referring to?
The people Diodorus is referring to were the first human beings to have lived on this planet at the time when what you know as "Egypt" was under the sea and uninhabited; a people who first instituted the worship of the gods.
Here, let Count Volney help you jog your memory:
“Those piles of ruins which you see in that narrow valley watered by the Nile, are the remains of opulent cities, the pride of the ancient kingdom of Ethiopia... There a people, now forgotten, discovered, while others were yet barbarians (including the Romans cited earlier on), the elements of the arts and sciences.”
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chitu wrote:
Have you read the link I posted in my original post, Lutz? Do you understand that Diodorus went out of his way to give a pithy description of whom he was referring to? ...

If I ever should think that I have to read Diodorus I will for sure not chose a version of the text / a translation without knowing the source / author and from an internet page which in my view is afrocentristic-racistic oriented.

Chitu wrote:
... The people Diodorus is referring to were the first human beings to have lived on this planet at the time when what you know as "Egypt" was under the sea and uninhabited; a people who first instituted the worship of the gods. ...

That one was good...

Chitu wrote:
... Here, let Count Volney help you jog your memory:
“Those piles of ruins which you see in that narrow valley watered by the Nile, are the remains of opulent cities, the pride of the ancient kingdom of Ethiopia... There a people, now forgotten, discovered, while others were yet barbarians (including the Romans cited earlier on), the elements of the arts and sciences.”

And this one is even better... Have you already informed the Sudan scientists that they can finish their research and work?

For the audience ... Constantin François de Chassebœuf, comte de Volney (3 February 1757 – 25 April 1820) after his first and only seven month visit to Egypt in 1782/3 :
Quote:
“...when I visited the Sphinx, its appearance gave me the key to the riddle. Beholding that head typically in all its features...” He later added “...the Egyptians were true Negroes of the same type as all native-born Africans.”

Lutz
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:

If I ever should think that I have to read Diodorus I will for sure not chose a version of the text / a translation without knowing the source / author and from an internet page which in my view is afrocentristic-racistic oriented.


Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History, Books II.35 - IV.58, Translated by C.H. Oldfather, Harvard University Press, 2000
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chitu wrote:
Lutz wrote:

If I ever should think that I have to read Diodorus I will for sure not chose a version of the text / a translation without knowing the source / author and from an internet page which in my view is afrocentristic-racistic oriented.

Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History, Books II.35 - IV.58, Translated by C.H. Oldfather, Harvard University Press, 2000

Funny ... suddenly and unexpectedly on the website a reference appears ... as if by magic. Things there are ... believe it or not!

Lutz
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to both neseret and Lutz. You answered all my questions Smile
Much appreciated.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
When Diodorus Siculus refers to "Ethiopians", who is he really talking about?
Is he referring to the kingdom of Kush, or people to the south of the Kingdom of Kush?


Now in former times the kings would obey the priests, having been overcome, not by arms nor by force, but because their reasoning powers had been put under a constraint by their very superstition; but during the reign of the second Ptolemy the king of the Ethiopians, Ergamenes*, who had had a Greek education and had studied philosophy, was the first to have the courage to disdain the command. For assuming a spirit which became the position of a king he entered with his soldiers into the unapproachable place where stood, as it turned out, the golden shrine of the Ethiopians, put the priests to the sword, and after abolishing this custom thereafter ordered affairs after his own will.
(Diodorus, Book III, chap.6)
*Arqamani (late 3rd to early 2nd Century BCE)
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