Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Sale of the Sekhemka Statue Currently in Northampton Museum
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Miscellaneous
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3609
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:51 am    Post subject: Sale of the Sekhemka Statue Currently in Northampton Museum Reply with quote

"Egyptian Government threatens legal action to stop the sale of Sekhemka" (Heritage Daily – Heritage & Archaeology News, July 8th, 2014)
Quote:
Egyptian Antiquities Minister, Mamdouh El-Damati, has asked the Egyptian Embassy, located in London, to take legal action to prevent the sale of the Sekhemka Statue currently residing in Northampton Museum.

Greetings, Lutz.
_________________
Ägyptologie - Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
A M Street
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 25 Nov 2011
Posts: 174
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little more information from the BBC website:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-28235072

Another case of a local council having no idea of what it has. They must all be accountants or something. (The price of everything and the value of nothing etc.) I can't imagine anyone with an ounce of history or conscience thinking this was a good idea. Mind you I suppose a £6 million payoff would persuade a lot of people.

To think that a council would accept a gift and then decide to flog it off appalls me. Where will all the future donations come from if this sort of thing is found to be acceptable?

Short-sighted, greedy and obviously unaware of their duties and obligations.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
neseret
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A M Street wrote:
A little more information from the BBC website:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-28235072

Another case of a local council having no idea of what it has. They must all be accountants or something. (The price of everything and the value of nothing etc.) I can't imagine anyone with an ounce of history or conscience thinking this was a good idea. Mind you I suppose a £6 million payoff would persuade a lot of people.

To think that a council would accept a gift and then decide to flog it off appalls me. Where will all the future donations come from if this sort of thing is found to be acceptable?

Short-sighted, greedy and obviously unaware of their duties and obligations.


As I live in Northamptonshire, let me give their viewpoint: I don't agree with it, but this is how it goes:

The Northamptonshire Council has not had the item on exhibit for some years, as they could not afford the insurance required to protect the item while on display (this can runs into the tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of Pounds Sterling, BTW). When the various government budget cuts came in after 2010, where severe austerity measures were imposed upon county councils, Northamptonshire decided that the best use of the statue was to sell it on so funds could be made available to the Council for other arts and cultural activities for the county, and in particular for the enhancement of the museum which presently houses the statue.

The Council claims it has made its intention to sell the Sekhemka statue clear for the past 2+ years, and since it was a gift from the family of Lord Northampton, they acquired his permission, informed their intent to the International Council of Museums [ICOM], and the Egyptian SCA (although I think (actually) all they did was confirm that the item was acquired before the 1970 UNESCO Prohibitions on sale of antiquities came into effect). At the time, the Council claims, none of these organisations raised any concerns about the Council selling the statue.

Now, there has begun a grass roots campaign (which I support, I might add) to demand the Council not sell the statue, as this sets a dangerous precedence, not only for Egyptian antiquities, but for any donation given to a museum, and because such sales rob the public (who originally purchased any item (if not donated) and pay for its upkeep through taxes).

Also, the Arts Council England has warned if the sale goes through, the museum could lose its accreditation status, particularly since it appears that Northampton Council did not conduct this disposal under the Arts Council'sstrict rules for disposal of cultural artefacts.

Finally, the Antiquities Ministry of Egypt has started legal proceedings to halt the sale of the Sekhemka statue as they claim they have not given permission for its sale. How effective their case will be before an English court is difficult to say.

HTH.
_________________
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg

Doctoral Candidate
Oriental Institute
Oriental Studies
Doctoral Programme [Egyptology]
Oxford University
Oxford, United Kingdom

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3609
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"International Council of Museums' Committee for Egyptology expresses concern over sale of Sekhemka"

"Christie's : The Exceptional Sale - The Northampton Sekhemka - London, 10th July 2014, Evening Sale"

Greetings, Lutz.
_________________
Ägyptologie - Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
A M Street
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 25 Nov 2011
Posts: 174
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

£16 million!

Now that's what some might call a result.

To me it's just proof that money can overcome any ethics, morals or duty. What Northamptonshire Council did s wrong and I fear will bring a lot of adverse reaction with it. I can see no barrier to this sale, apart from that of the Egyptian government, the statue could not be considered to be something of national importance and thus be blocked by the government. We just have to hope that Egypt can do something to stop this, though I have little hope that they will succeed.

A sad day, the philistines win, and something that should be visible to the public will now probably disappear into some rich man's private hoard.Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3609
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The results a little more in detail...

"The Exceptional Sale 2014 - Christie`s, London, King Street, 10 July 2014"
Quote:
"The Exceptional Sale evening auction realised £31,048,500 / $53,186,081/ €38,934,819, marking the highest total for any various-owner sale of classical decorative arts and breaking the previous record established by Christie’s Exceptional Sale in 2011 at £28.7 million. The top price was paid for Sekhemka, an exceptional Egyptian painted limestone statue dating to the Old Kingdom, Late Dynasty 5, circa 2400–2300 B.C., probably from Saqqara in Lower Egypt, which realised £15,762,500 / $27,001,163 / €19,766,175 (estimate: £4,000,000 - 6,000,000) setting a world record price at auction for an ancient Egyptian work of art. ..."

Greetings, Lutz.
_________________
Ägyptologie - Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3609
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Crisis at Christie’s : The Sale of the Statue of Sekhemka and its Implications on Cultural Heritage" (Thomas Greiner, 10.07.2014)

Greetings, Lutz.
_________________
Ägyptologie - Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3609
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Egyptian statue sells for nearly £16m"
Quote:
BBC-News : 10 July 2014, Last updated at 22:05 BST

A 4,000-year-old Egyptian statue has been sold for £15.76m at an auction in London. The Egyptian ambassador to Britain said the statue should be handed back after Northampton Borough Council put it up for sale. Neil Bradford reports.

Greetings, Lutz.
_________________
Ägyptologie - Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Iker
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 22 Mar 2014
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a Save Sekhemka Action Group
http://sekhemka.blogspot.co.uk/

The present Lord Northampton originally protested the sale.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-22639468

But perhaps the offer from the council officer of a share in the proceeds helped avert legal action.

Everything seems to be up for sale in U.K at present including honesty and integrity. If their grans and grandpa's could be sold they would (but then again putting them into care homes does indeed convert them into commodities for the private sector to trade.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Iker
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 22 Mar 2014
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The Museums Association (MA) has condemned the sale of an ancient Egyptian statue from the collection of Northampton Museum and Art Gallery."
http://www.museumsassociation.org/news/11072014-ma-condemns-sale-sekhemka#.U8Em0_nIbck

The following links gives the reponse of locals to the loss of the statue:
http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/politics/sekhemka-statue-sells-for-15-76-million-despite-protests-by-campaigners-and-egyptian-government-1-6172157

The "honourable" Lord is now donating £1m from the amount he has creamed off from the sale of what was donated to the Museum. But many are asking the question how he is donating money that do not feel he should be in a position to give away, i.e it isn't his.
http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/politics/exclusive-lord-northampton-donates-1-million-to-northamptonshire-community-foundation-from-sale-of-sekhemka-1-6174480

When the statue and other items were donated there was a condition that the items be retained by the museum and be available for study but it looks as if hiding it away out of site brought about the desired conditions and MacKintosh (who seems to be hated by so many of the local community) has gotten his way.

Corruption seems to be hinted at by local people. He should make it clear that neither he nor any related family member or company, consultancy has or will receive money through this sale.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
neseret
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iker wrote:
"The Museums Association (MA) has condemned the sale of an ancient Egyptian statue from the collection of Northampton Museum and Art Gallery."
http://www.museumsassociation.org/news/11072014-ma-condemns-sale-sekhemka#.U8Em0_nIbck

<snip>The "honourable" Lord is now donating £1m from the amount he has creamed off from the sale of what was donated to the Museum. But many are asking the question how he is donating money that do not feel he should be in a position to give away, i.e it isn't his.
http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/politics/exclusive-lord-northampton-donates-1-million-to-northamptonshire-community-foundation-from-sale-of-sekhemka-1-6174480


I found it interesting reading the BBC backlog on this issue that originally the Lord Northampton had actually brought a lawsuit to forbid the council from selling the Sekhemka statue, but it had been withdrawn after he and the council came to some agreement, which many have interpreted was his cut from the sale. There is no doubt that his family gave the statue to the Northampton museum with the understanding it was to be displayed to the public, maintained by the Council, and held for Egyptological research.

However, one of the Council's rather weak reasons for selling off the Sekhemka statue was because "no one was looking at it", which I though was rather disingenuous, since it was the Council who ordered it to NOT be displayed, claiming it was too expensive to insure for open display. The Sekhemka statue has not been on public display for at least 2 (some say 4) years, so of course, it's true: no on WAS looking at it. It was not from lack of interest, however.

This still did not give them the right, IMO, to sell off the Sekhemka statue without going through the due diligence of the Arts England Council guidelines, as well as informing other museums and/or the Egyptian government of their "first pick" option for the statue for their collections, assuming the "too expensive to insure" story had any merit.

Iker wrote:
When the statue and other items were donated there was a condition that the items be retained by the museum and be available for study but it looks as if hiding it away out of site brought about the desired conditions and MacKintosh (who seems to be hated by so many of the local community) has gotten his way.

Corruption seems to be hinted at by local people. He should make it clear that neither he nor any related family member or company, consultancy has or will receive money through this sale.


The grassroots campaign to save the Sekhemka statue is now working to assure that whoever bought the statue cannot take it out of the UK, and if bought privately, must agree to its public display. See

<http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/local/sekhemka-campaigners-we-will-try-to-block-any-export-of-statue-after-day-of-shame-for-northampton-1-6174120>

My feeling is that someone must have let the Council know they would be interested in purchasing the Sekhemka statue, which is how the whole issue began. That would be a form of corruption, if true, for it would mean that the Council let this entire proceeding develop at the behest of one individual, with the promise of big money.*

However, as graphic novelist Alan Moore has noted, such a sale sets a dangerous precedent, for now donors to museums will think twice before giving items to a museum which could, at any moment, decide it was cheaper to sell the item off to make money. Museums are not supposed to view their collections as m o n e y-makers, but since they take tax money for the display and upkeep of their collections, they are in fact robbing the public (as well as the donors) by taking an action such as Northampton Museum.

* Please note that museums do de-accession items from their collection from time to time, but usually it's in swaps with other museums for a 1:1 swap, of if the item is sold, certain guidelines must be met (such as the Arts England Council guidelines) because one is selling a) a cultural artefact, and b) it must be within the guidelines of selling off property that essentially belongs to the public. The claim is now that Northampton did not comply with thee guidelines.

The Northampton Council stated it had the public's approval, but the actual result of such a poll was statistically evenly split at 50/50, which should have made them think twice. Apparently, the lure of the millions to be made appears to have swayed them.

HTH.
_________________
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg

Doctoral Candidate
Oriental Institute
Oriental Studies
Doctoral Programme [Egyptology]
Oxford University
Oxford, United Kingdom

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
A M Street
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 25 Nov 2011
Posts: 174
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadly this is not the first time that money has triumphed over decency and doing the right thing.

One has only to look at the disposal of the Carnarvon collection to the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York to see that it has all been done before. In that case an offer was made to the British Museum which the BM could not possible comply with and "hey presto" another buyer miraculously appears and makes off with the goods. It seems as if the same might have happened in the Sekhemka case with the added insult of Lord Northampton donating part of his windfall in an attempt to buy off criticism.

Looking through the Museum Association's guide to disposals I think that this case is a text-book example of how to drive a coach and horses through the guidelines. For example
Museums should:

1: Hold collections in trust for the benefit of society

2: Focus on public service

3: Encourage people to explore collections for inspiration, learning and enjoyment

4: Consult and involve communities, users and supporters

5: Acquire items honestly and responsibly

6: Safeguard the long term public interest in the collections.


So six out of ten of the guidelines seem to have been broken here. Not bad, it is probably impossible to break all ten in one go, the only one observed seems to be number seven which safeguards the interests of the original donor. Lord N has certainly been looked after in this case!

This whole sordid charade just gets more and more unsavoury by the day.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Iker
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 22 Mar 2014
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A major fire erupted in the Marquis estate the day before the sale took place and already talk of curses are doing the rounds.
The following link gives a good overview:
http://www.heritagedaily.com/2014/07/the-curse-of-sekjemka-strikes-northampton-as-alan-moore-condemns-15-million-sale-of-statue/104116

Note this passage from the above article:
"there is a school of legal opinion which cites a 19th century Deed of Gift published by the Museums Association in the run up to the sale"
http://www.museumsassociation.org/download?id=971204 (Deed of Gift Dated August 1880)

But the deed of gift is dated August 1880 and vaguely mentions papyrus and paintings but no specific mention of statue. Other web sites, seemingly reporting reliable sources, are saying the statue was given to the museum prior to 1880 (there is uncertainty which Marquis donated it - indicating no paperwork and therefore straight gift) so it isn't covered by the conditions given on the above Deed of Gift.
http://committeeforculturalpolicy.org/barefoot-egyptian-statue-to-be-sold-by-northampton-shoe-museum/

If this is so why is the current Marquis pocketing millions of pounds? Is there another Deed of Gift in existence why are we not being told about it? The above Deed of Gift linked above confers nothing on him, because it doesn't relate to the statue, so why is the council (the seller, therefore the owner, according to the auction house) giving him millions of pounds? What is Marquis claim of shared ownership based on? If the statue is not covered by the exhibition covenants in the above mentioned deed what was to stop this museum coming to an arrangement, say, with the British Museum if they were genuinely concerned about security and it wasn't because the statue didn't fit in with their ideas of a shoe museum and whatever personal reasons MacKintosh had for pushing through the sale in the face of such hostile opposition?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Iker
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 22 Mar 2014
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Neseret: I found it interesting reading the BBC backlog on this issue that originally the Lord Northampton had actually brought a lawsuit to forbid the council from selling the Sekhemka statue, but it had been withdrawn after he and the council came to some agreement, which many have interpreted was his cut from the sale. There is no doubt that his family gave the statue to the Northampton museum with the understanding it was to be displayed to the public, maintained by the Council, and held for Egyptological research.

The title of ownership of the statue has not been established (at least not publically) as mentioned in my previous post.

Quote:
However, one of the Council's rather weak reasons for selling off the Sekhemka statue was because "no one was looking at it", which I though was rather disingenuous, since it was the Council who ordered it to NOT be displayed, claiming it was too expensive to insure for open display. The Sekhemka statue has not been on public display for at least 2 (some say 4) years, so of course, it's true: no on WAS looking at it. It was not from lack of interest, however.

The reason they gave was that it would take 24hour guard protection however, Axa Art insurance undermined their argument when it said the existing display cabinet was adequate. The council also refused to take up the offer of an £8,000 gift from the Friends of Northampton Museum and Art Gallery for an even more secure cabinet.
http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/local/special-report-should-northampton-s-sekhemka-statue-be-sold-off-1-6128571

Quote:
This still did not give them the right, IMO, to sell off the Sekhemka statue without going through the due diligence of the Arts England Council guidelines, as well as informing other museums and/or the Egyptian government of their "first pick" option for the statue for their collections, assuming the "too expensive to insure" story had any merit.

They seem determined to sell and the insurance argument looks to have had no real basis in fact (not sure how the recent auction would have changed the insurers views)


Quote:
The grassroots campaign to save the Sekhemka statue is now working to assure that whoever bought the statue cannot take it out of the UK, and if bought privately, must agree to its public display. See

<http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/local/sekhemka-campaigners-we-will-try-to-block-any-export-of-statue-after-day-of-shame-for-northampton-1-6174120>

As mentioned in my previous post there is no evidence to prove that the statue, which T. G. H James thought was given to the Musuem around 1870, is covered by the conditions in the 1880 gift deed. The council state clearly that it is they who owns the statue but if that were so then why give a multimillion pound pay-off to the Marquis unless it is to keep matters out of the courts? Just to repeat the council has not shown title of ownership and the Marquis has not shown that the statue is covered by the 1880 deed of gift.

Quote:
My feeling is that someone must have let the Council know they would be interested in purchasing the Sekhemka statue, which is how the whole issue began. That would be a form of corruption, if true, for it would mean that the Council let this entire proceeding develop at the behest of one individual, with the promise of big money.*

The Marquis has a history of dubious sales of antiquities. See Sevso Treasure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevso_Treasure

Quote:
However, as graphic novelist Alan Moore has noted, such a sale sets a dangerous precedent, for now donors to museums will think twice before giving items to a museum which could, at any moment, decide it was cheaper to sell the item off to make money. Museums are not supposed to view their collections as m o n e y-makers, but since they take tax money for the display and upkeep of their collections, they are in fact robbing the public (as well as the donors) by taking an action such as Northampton Museum.

Yes, and sales such as this can only encourage those who only see value in money and to plug holes in their budget by selling off items such as this.


Quote:
The Northampton Council stated it had the public's approval, but the actual result of such a poll was statistically evenly split at 50/50, which should have made them think twice. Apparently, the lure of the millions to be made appears to have swayed them
.
The questionaire they sent out didn't ask if the sale should go ahead but only how the proceeds should be spent, hence the protests by the MA etc. Responders could leave comments if they wanted and, according to the council, they were able to reach the conclusion by ananlysis of these comments that around 50% wanted to sell, i.e it was a dishonest poll.
http://www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/01122012-consultation-into-sale-provokes-criticism
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3609
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Sekhemka Statue : Northampton Museum Loses Art Council Accreditation" (BBC - News, 1 August 2014)
Quote:
"Two museums have lost their accreditation status after the controversial sale of a 4,000-year-old Egyptian statue to a private collector.

Northampton Borough Council sold the Sekhemka limestone statue for nearly £16m at auction to help fund an extension to the town's museum. Arts Council England ruled the sale breached the accredited standards for how museums manage their collections. The council is now ineligible for a range of arts grants and funding. ..."

Greetings, Lutz.
_________________
Ägyptologie - Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Miscellaneous All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group