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Khnum Temple Stela in Elephantine
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Medjay Archer
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:58 pm    Post subject: Khnum Temple Stela in Elephantine Reply with quote

I'm looking for an image/photography of a fragmentary stela erected by Kashta by the temple of Khnum in Elephantine. By now, it is housed in the Cairo Museum with a Serial Number of 41043.

In literature, I was stumped to an almost unique reference: an article in ZÄS 90 by J.Leclant where he says in this preview he got a photography of it, courtesy of the Museum itself.

I looked in WorldCat if ZÄS band 90 could be in one of my surrounding universities, but only Brooklyn has it; I'm no American.

Regarding the other side, that is various sources from tourists who took photos of artefacts in the Museum to guide of the objects in the said museum, it's a dead end.

Just asking if it happens someone may have something related, even though chances are thin given the limitation of sources.

Idea
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jean Leclant : Kashta, Pharaon, en Egypte. - In: Zeitschrift für Ägyptische Sprache und Altertumskunde - ZÄS 90. - 1963. - pp. 74 - 81. On page 75 (Fig.1) :


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karl Jansen-Winkeln : Inschriften der Spätzeit - Die 22. - 24. Dynastie. - Wiesbaden : Otto Harrassowitz Verlag, 2007. - ISBN : 3447055820 ; 9783447055826. - 536 p., page 336:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karl-Heinz Priese : Der Beginn der kuschitischen Herrschaft in Ägypten. - In: ZÄS 98. - 1972. - pp. 16 - 32, pp. 16 - 18 :


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
Karl Jansen-Winkeln : Inschriften der Spätzeit - Die 22. - 24. Dynastie. - Wiesbaden : Otto Harrassowitz Verlag, 2007. - ISBN : 3447055820 ; 9783447055826. - 536 p., page 336:


Greetings, Lutz.


Thanks for these three references, although, for this particular one, I scratch my head how I missed it given I passed by that one.
Out of curiosity, could it be you have the direct access option on the site of De Gruyter, the one that gives special individual access? Surprised

=======

I know I can be demanding sometimes, but I am enthusiastic in this situation given my limitation of referential books. Just buying the (three volumes) REM of Jean Leclant cost me an arm and I don't have much reference books in Canada it seems.

Does it happen you have "The Temples of Kawa. II. The Inscriptions by M. F. Macadam"? I have the first volume, but not the second one in which the plates are located. Mad Confused Sad

I found most images of most stelae (Kawa IV to VII) through indepedent sites. Sadly, the Kawa VI of this Academia paper (p. 484) is relatively of poor quality for reading. I tried to luck out looking for Flickr random photographs by tourists, hoping one would stumble upon those stelae, but it didn't work. For the Sudan National Museum, it is a total flop. Indeed, there aren't flocks of people going to Sudan.

Also, not knowing what is inside the second volume of Macadam's Kawa Inscriptions, are there photographs of stelae Kawa IV, V and VI?
And yes, you guess if it is a positive, I wish so much for these even if there are fragmentary (I have read some of these stelae were broken during the Oxford Expedition in 1930-31).

Thanks. Wink Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Medjay Archer wrote:
... could it be you have the direct access option on the site of De Gruyter, the one that gives special individual access? ...

No, unfortunately not. I have only access to some parts, via the online offer from the Berlin State Library.

Medjay Archer wrote:
... I don't have much reference books in Canada it seems. ... Does it happen you have "The Temples of Kawa. II. The Inscriptions by M. F. Macadam"? I have the first volume, but not the second one in which the plates are located. ...

In Berlin State Library is just M. F. Laming Macadam : The Temples of Kawa I.1-2 (1949) available. But The Temples of Kawa II.1-2 - The Inscriptions (1955) are, as far as I can see, available for interlibrary loan in Canada from the Royal Ontario Museum, Research Reference Library / Musée royal de l'Ontario, Bibliothèque de recherche :

http://amicus.collectionscanada.ca/aaweb-bin/aamain/itemdisp?sessionKey=1406184187046_142_78_200_14&l=0&v=0&lvl=2&rt=1&itm=18711738&rsn=S_WWWmeasslsBl&all=1&dt=+TW+%22The%22+AND+%22Temples%22+AND+%22of%22+AND+%22Kawa%22&spi=-

http://amicus.collectionscanada.ca/aaweb-bin/aamain/locations?sessionKey=1406184187046_142_78_200_14&l=0&v=0&lvl=2&rv=2&itm=18711738&all=1&rsn=S_WWWmeasslsBl&d=2&dt=+TW+%22The%22+AND+%22Temples%22+AND+%22of%22+AND+%22Kawa%22&spi=-

So, maybe your local library can help?

Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This offer from OTRM ...

"Photocopy – $20.00 min. charge up to 30 pages; $0.20 per additional page"

seems also of interest in your case?

Kawa I, 1949 (Text: XVI + 142 p. ; Plates: VI p., pl.)

Kawa II, 1955 (Text: XXI + 255 p., 82 fig. ; Plates: XX p., 133 pl.).

Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you still know : "The Meroitic Newsletter - A Digital Compilation" ?

And found also ...

Fontes Historiae Nubiorum - Textual Sources for the History of the Middle Nile Region between the Eighth Century BC and the Sixth century AD. Vol. I : From the Eight to the Mid-fifth Century BC. - [Ed. Eide/Hägg/Holton Pierce/Török]. - Bergen : Klassisk Institutt Universitetet i Bergen, 1994. - 343 p. - ISBN : 82-991411-6-8.
Quote:
AEB 95.1255 : This book makes available the textual sources--both literary and documentary--for the history of the Middle Nile Region between the 8th century B.C. and the 6th century A.D. The texts are presented in their respective original languages (Egyptian in transliteration, Greek, Latin) as well as in new English translations, and each is accompanied by a historical commentary. The present volume (abbreviated citation form "FHN I") contains the sources nos. 1-66 (i.a. the inscriptions of the XXVth Kushite Dynasty, those of Aspelta, and Herodotus' Ethiopian logos), covering the period from the 8th to the mid-5th century B.C. The translations are framed by philological introductions and notes intended to place the individual texts into their wider literary context and to substantiate the translators' interpretation of difficult passages. The commentary following the translations presents historical analyses and provides information about the historical context. Ample space has been given to bibliographical refer ences.

For the contents of the projected FHN II-IV (respectively, sources nos. 67-185, from the mid-5th to the 1st century B.C.; nos. 186-332, from the 1st to the 6th century A.D.; interpretative essays, addenda et corrigenda, indices) see at the end of this volume.

Rev. BiOr 54 (1997), 125-127 (Ronald J. Leprohon).

Fontes Historiae Nubiorum - Textual Sources for the History of the Middle Nile Region between the Eighth Century BC and the Sixth Century AD. Vol. II : From the Mid-fifth to the First Century BC. - [Ed. Eide/Hägg/Holton Pierce/Török]. - Bergen : Institutt for klassisk filologi, russisk og religionsvitenskap, Seksjon for gresk, latin og egyptologi, Universitetet i Bergen, 1996. - p. 347-745. - ISBN : 82-91626-01-4.
Quote:
AEB 96.1008 : Sequel to AEB 95.1255; see there for the general introductory remarks. A general note to the Meroitic texts and a list of the Meroitic alphabet by Török precedes a further one to the translations of the Egyptian texts by Pierce. After the long list of abbreviations used follows the main text with the text sources in their original script (or transliteration) and translation. Summaries for the successive reigns precede the sources proper.

The present volume starts with the reign of king Talakhamani in second half of the 5th century B.C., whose reign suffered from the plague, as Thucydides reported. Better attested are the reigns of: Irike-Amanote (stelae Kawa IX-XII); Nastasen (stela Berlin 2268); Sabrakamani (Kawa XIII); Aryamani (Kawa XIV-XV); Arnekhamani (with two hymns in the Apedemak temple at Musawwarat es Sufra); an episode of the Upper Egyptian revolt of 187 B.C. under Ptolemy V and the role of the Meroites in this (Demotic Pap. Berlin 15527; probably from about the same time dates the Famine Stela of Sehel). From the mid-2nd century B.C. is the Nubian nome list of Ptolemy VI at Philae. Tanyidamani of the late 2nd-early 1st century B.C. is, among others, represented by a Meroitic stela from Gebel Barkal and the text of privileges granted to the Khnum temple at Elephantine. Also worth noting is the Hamadab stela of Amanirenas and Akinidad (late 1st century B.C.).

Furthermore, a number of Classical authors are quoted: Diodorus Siculus, "Bibliotheca Historica" (i.a., on Nectanebo II's flight to Ethiopia), Pseudo-Callistenes's (from the "Alexander Romance"); Pliny, "Naturalis historia"; Bion of Soloi as copied in various later authors; Strabo, "Geographika"; Cornelius Gallus on his Nubian campaign; the "Res Gestae Divi Augusti" on the emperor's war with Meroe.

Rev. Orientalia 67 (1998), 127-129 (Inge Hofmann).


Friedrich W. Hinkel : Preservation and Restoration of Monuments - Causes of Deterioration and Measures for Protection. - In: Études nubiennes I. - 1992. - pp. 147-185. (plan, fig., ill.).
Quote:
AEB 95.1261 : A very thorough and methodical survey of various aspects of the preservation and restoration of Nubian monuments, which rapidly deteriorate by actions of nature and man. It includes the brief description of blocks and building elements taken from a number of sites to various foreign museums and collections since 1821. Mentioned are: Kawa, the Semna West Temple, Meroe, Duanib, and Musawwarat es-Sufra.

Études nubiennes [1992-1994]. - Études nubiennes. Conférence de Genève. Actes du VIIe Congrès international d'études nubiennes, 3-8 septembre 1990. - Volume I: Communications principales; Volume II: Communications. Editeur: Ch. Bonnet, Chêne-Bourg, Médecine & Hygiène, 1992-1994. - [I]: XVI, 390 p. - [II]: XII, 321 p.; plans, maps, fig., ill., tables). - ISBN : 2-9700008-0-6/ -1-4.

These 3 available in Canadian librarys, also for interlibrary loans (ILL).

Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:

In Berlin State Library is just M. F. Laming Macadam : The Temples of Kawa I.1-2 (1949) available. But The Temples of Kawa II.1-2 - The Inscriptions (1955) are, as far as I can see, available for interlibrary loan in Canada from the Royal Ontario Museum, Research Reference Library / Musée royal de l'Ontario, Bibliothèque de recherche :

http://amicus.collectionscanada.ca/aaweb-bin/aamain/itemdisp?sessionKey=1406184187046_142_78_200_14&l=0&v=0&lvl=2&rt=1&itm=18711738&rsn=S_WWWmeasslsBl&all=1&dt=+TW+%22The%22+AND+%22Temples%22+AND+%22of%22+AND+%22Kawa%22&spi=-

http://amicus.collectionscanada.ca/aaweb-bin/aamain/locations?sessionKey=1406184187046_142_78_200_14&l=0&v=0&lvl=2&rv=2&itm=18711738&all=1&rsn=S_WWWmeasslsBl&d=2&dt=+TW+%22The%22+AND+%22Temples%22+AND+%22of%22+AND+%22Kawa%22&spi=-

So, maybe your local library can help?

Greetings, Lutz.


Confused I think I mistook the 1955 double volumes from the one of 1949 (also double volumes). I confused the whole thing. In fact, what I meant was the second part of volume #1, which is for plates. Here's a reference. Sadly, no library in Canada offers it in paper (so I may consult).

Regarding Amicus, I should have specified I'm from Quebec. As far I understood, it's the paper version of the monograph.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Medjay Archer wrote:
Lutz wrote:

In Berlin State Library is just M. F. Laming Macadam : The Temples of Kawa I.1-2 (1949) available. But The Temples of Kawa II.1-2 - The Inscriptions (1955) are, as far as I can see, available for interlibrary loan in Canada from the Royal Ontario Museum, Research Reference Library / Musée royal de l'Ontario, Bibliothèque de recherche :

http://amicus.collectionscanada.ca/aaweb-bin/aamain/itemdisp?sessionKey=1406184187046_142_78_200_14&l=0&v=0&lvl=2&rt=1&itm=18711738&rsn=S_WWWmeasslsBl&all=1&dt=+TW+%22The%22+AND+%22Temples%22+AND+%22of%22+AND+%22Kawa%22&spi=-

http://amicus.collectionscanada.ca/aaweb-bin/aamain/locations?sessionKey=1406184187046_142_78_200_14&l=0&v=0&lvl=2&rv=2&itm=18711738&all=1&rsn=S_WWWmeasslsBl&d=2&dt=+TW+%22The%22+AND+%22Temples%22+AND+%22of%22+AND+%22Kawa%22&spi=-

So, maybe your local library can help?


Confused I think I mistook the 1955 double volumes from the one of 1949 (also double volumes). I confused the whole thing. In fact, what I meant was the second part of volume #1, which is for plates. Here's a reference. Sadly, no library in Canada offers it in paper (so I may consult). ...

In this case I can try to order it in Berlin. But I can not take it home, it is for use only in the reading room. I guess, the volume is too big for a scanner. Therefore, I can only try my luck with my camera (without flash) ... !? Let me know which stela, as precisely as possible, is of interest to you...

Medjay Archer wrote:
... Regarding Amicus, I should have specified I'm from Quebec. As far I understood, it's the paper version of the monograph.

And interlibrary loan means that your library in Quebec can order the book from the library it owns and you can use it then in the rooms of your library. But it should be also possible to order copys. You should ask about that in your library. Here in Germany it is no problem, I do this very often. And the system is the same in public librarys all over the "western world", as far as I know.

Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Medjay Archer wrote:
... the one of 1949 (also double volumes). ... In fact, what I meant was the second part of volume #1, which is for plates. ... Sadly, no library in Canada offers it in paper (so I may consult). ...

I found 3 librarys in Canada possessing this volume and also offering it for interlibrary loan:

http://amicus.collectionscanada.ca/aaweb-bin/aamain/locations?sessionKey=1406184187046_142_78_200_14&l=0&v=0&lvl=2&rv=6&itm=20807510&all=0&rsn=S_WWWpcab3jnQW&d=2&dt=+TW+%22The%22+AND+%22Temples%22+AND+%22of%22+AND+%22Kawa%22&spi=-

Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:

I found 3 librarys in Canada possessing this volume and also offering it for interlibrary loan:

http://amicus.collectionscanada.ca/aaweb-bin/aamain/locations?sessionKey=1406184187046_142_78_200_14&l=0&v=0&lvl=2&rv=6&itm=20807510&all=0&rsn=S_WWWpcab3jnQW&d=2&dt=+TW+%22The%22+AND+%22Temples%22+AND+%22of%22+AND+%22Kawa%22&spi=-

Greetings, Lutz.


In the end, the solution you proposed is the one being the most reasonable. I tried to find another more direct solution once again, but, to my dismal, it failed. I'll call myself some libraries to see the ones capable to such ILL. I see the cost of one of is quite nice (10$ per request), asking myself if it could mean many books under the designation of one request. Idea

For the list of facsimiles and/or photographs, I see most come from two authors: Nicolas Grimal and Macadam. If it works well regarding the 4 volumes of Macadam (or rather 3 given I have the first one), remains two theses of Grimal, which are:

La stèle triomphante de Pi('ankh)y au Musée du Caire JE 48862 et 47086-47089.
Quatre Stèles Napatéennes au Musée du Caire JE 48863-48866.

Fortunately, the first can be loaned from somewhere in Canada, but the second is absent. Sad

Otherwise, the other books/papers are:

    Priese, Eine verschollene Bauinschrift des frühmeroitischen Konigs Aktisanes (?) von Gebel Barkal. The figures of page 1 and the ones following (i.e. "figs 1f"). I can't say how many there are since I have no idea of the paper.

    And ZÄS 70, p. 35-46 [Reisner, Inscribed Monuments from Gebel Barkal].

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:

In this case I can try to order it in Berlin. But I can not take it home, it is for use only in the reading room. I guess, the volume is too big for a scanner. Therefore, I can only try my luck with my camera (without flash) ... !? Let me know which stela, as precisely as possible, is of interest to you...


But, doesn't it cost to request loans? Idea
Indeed, the best for scanning all sort of books is the Magic Wand Scanner. If it wasn't of that little gem, I would have not read G.Posener book about execration texts in the comfort of my house nor the present book I am reading (Török - Handbook of Kush). Surprised

I'll see from my side first if it works. Wink
BTW, thanks for the help since the first post. It really helps when lacking resources plus experience. If it wasn't of the ILL suggestion (note I did not mean "ill-suggestion" Surprised ), I would still swim in circles. Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
Maybe you still know : "The Meroitic Newsletter - A Digital Compilation" ?

And found also ...

Fontes Historiae Nubiorum - Textual Sources for the History of the Middle Nile Region between the Eighth Century BC and the Sixth century AD. Vol. I : From the Eight to the Mid-fifth Century BC. - [Ed. Eide/Hägg/Holton Pierce/Török]. - Bergen : Klassisk Institutt Universitetet i Bergen, 1994. - 343 p. - ISBN : 82-991411-6-8.
Quote:
AEB 95.1255 : This book makes available the textual sources--both literary and documentary--for the history of the Middle Nile Region between the 8th century B.C. and the 6th century A.D. The texts are presented in their respective original languages (Egyptian in transliteration, Greek, Latin) as well as in new English translations, and each is accompanied by a historical commentary. The present volume (abbreviated citation form "FHN I") contains the sources nos. 1-66 (i.a. the inscriptions of the XXVth Kushite Dynasty, those of Aspelta, and Herodotus' Ethiopian logos), covering the period from the 8th to the mid-5th century B.C. The translations are framed by philological introductions and notes intended to place the individual texts into their wider literary context and to substantiate the translators' interpretation of difficult passages. The commentary following the translations presents historical analyses and provides information about the historical context. Ample space has been given to bibliographical refer ences.

For the contents of the projected FHN II-IV (respectively, sources nos. 67-185, from the mid-5th to the 1st century B.C.; nos. 186-332, from the 1st to the 6th century A.D.; interpretative essays, addenda et corrigenda, indices) see at the end of this volume.

Rev. BiOr 54 (1997), 125-127 (Ronald J. Leprohon).

Fontes Historiae Nubiorum - Textual Sources for the History of the Middle Nile Region between the Eighth Century BC and the Sixth Century AD. Vol. II : From the Mid-fifth to the First Century BC. - [Ed. Eide/Hägg/Holton Pierce/Török]. - Bergen : Institutt for klassisk filologi, russisk og religionsvitenskap, Seksjon for gresk, latin og egyptologi, Universitetet i Bergen, 1996. - p. 347-745. - ISBN : 82-91626-01-4.
Quote:
AEB 96.1008 : Sequel to AEB 95.1255; see there for the general introductory remarks. A general note to the Meroitic texts and a list of the Meroitic alphabet by Török precedes a further one to the translations of the Egyptian texts by Pierce. After the long list of abbreviations used follows the main text with the text sources in their original script (or transliteration) and translation. Summaries for the successive reigns precede the sources proper.

The present volume starts with the reign of king Talakhamani in second half of the 5th century B.C., whose reign suffered from the plague, as Thucydides reported. Better attested are the reigns of: Irike-Amanote (stelae Kawa IX-XII); Nastasen (stela Berlin 2268); Sabrakamani (Kawa XIII); Aryamani (Kawa XIV-XV); Arnekhamani (with two hymns in the Apedemak temple at Musawwarat es Sufra); an episode of the Upper Egyptian revolt of 187 B.C. under Ptolemy V and the role of the Meroites in this (Demotic Pap. Berlin 15527; probably from about the same time dates the Famine Stela of Sehel). From the mid-2nd century B.C. is the Nubian nome list of Ptolemy VI at Philae. Tanyidamani of the late 2nd-early 1st century B.C. is, among others, represented by a Meroitic stela from Gebel Barkal and the text of privileges granted to the Khnum temple at Elephantine. Also worth noting is the Hamadab stela of Amanirenas and Akinidad (late 1st century B.C.).

Furthermore, a number of Classical authors are quoted: Diodorus Siculus, "Bibliotheca Historica" (i.a., on Nectanebo II's flight to Ethiopia), Pseudo-Callistenes's (from the "Alexander Romance"); Pliny, "Naturalis historia"; Bion of Soloi as copied in various later authors; Strabo, "Geographika"; Cornelius Gallus on his Nubian campaign; the "Res Gestae Divi Augusti" on the emperor's war with Meroe.

Rev. Orientalia 67 (1998), 127-129 (Inge Hofmann).


Friedrich W. Hinkel : Preservation and Restoration of Monuments - Causes of Deterioration and Measures for Protection. - In: Études nubiennes I. - 1992. - pp. 147-185. (plan, fig., ill.).
Quote:
AEB 95.1261 : A very thorough and methodical survey of various aspects of the preservation and restoration of Nubian monuments, which rapidly deteriorate by actions of nature and man. It includes the brief description of blocks and building elements taken from a number of sites to various foreign museums and collections since 1821. Mentioned are: Kawa, the Semna West Temple, Meroe, Duanib, and Musawwarat es-Sufra.

Études nubiennes [1992-1994]. - Études nubiennes. Conférence de Genève. Actes du VIIe Congrès international d'études nubiennes, 3-8 septembre 1990. - Volume I: Communications principales; Volume II: Communications. Editeur: Ch. Bonnet, Chêne-Bourg, Médecine & Hygiène, 1992-1994. - [I]: XVI, 390 p. - [II]: XII, 321 p.; plans, maps, fig., ill., tables). - ISBN : 2-9700008-0-6/ -1-4.

These 3 available in Canadian librarys, also for interlibrary loans (ILL).

Greetings, Lutz.


The miracle of the web by now is the progressive leaking of some books (although I also understand it might hurt the author Confused ). I already had the 4 volumes FHN. Good reference ordered by date of transliterations (except greek texts)+translations. Still, these books don't give the original (facsimile/photos) nor the native writing (demotic, hieroglyphic, meroitic, etc.). Hence I try to find them from their original publications unless it happens to be in a museum and one had the unbeknownst courtesy to upload said epigraphy on some site (like Flickr).

I'll see for the two other books, but now it's getting late. I have to sleep. Very Happy
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Kmt is not a racial term nor a reference to the black silt deposited on the Nile valley, but an expression of "standing on place wherein food is plenty, allowing to stop moving like the neighbouring nomads". -Asar Imhotep
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Medjay Archer
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Joined: 07 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's strike this one:

La stèle triomphante de Pi('ankh)y au Musée du Caire JE 48862 et 47086-47089.

I have found it on internet. Razz
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Kmt is not a racial term nor a reference to the black silt deposited on the Nile valley, but an expression of "standing on place wherein food is plenty, allowing to stop moving like the neighbouring nomads". -Asar Imhotep
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