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Something to watch for.
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A M Street
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:09 pm    Post subject: Something to watch for. Reply with quote

A heads up for those of you who can receive the BBC.

On Sunday 26th October at 21:00 BST BBC 1 will be showing a documentary on the life and death of Tutanhkamun.

The trailer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/schedules/bbcone/20141026
looks a little overblown but in the nature of such things is not too overdone.

Definitely one to catch if you can.B
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Medjay Archer
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. Albeit, I wished media covered more about the other pharaohs. Sometimes, there are enough material to make a documentary.
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A M Street
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks lioke the BBC is really going to town on things Egypological.

I just spotted this article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-29734975

Most interesting and shows that even well-known statues and objects still have something to tell us.

On a personal note I recall with some satisfaction being able to shoot down a somewhat pompous tour guide on the subject of the obelisk.

Whilst visiting Philae we were looking at the second pylon and the guide told us about the obelisks that had originally formed part of the court. He asked what he thought was a rhetorical question "If anyone can tell me where the obelisk is now I will buy that person a diamond ring from the jeweller's shop on the tour boat."

Hah! As a a former archaeologist I had done my homework and when I replied that the obelisk was now at Kingston Lacy in Dorset the silence was deafening.

I never did get my ring. Sad
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A M Street
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A correction. The programme is due to be shown at 21:00 GMT.

The clocks go back tonight and I had forgotten that.

Sorry.
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Chepses
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The findings this team present are a little controversial to me. I mean, the previous study proved the king's cause of death, now it's a completely different theory. It puzzles me but I guess that for now we should accept it. Personally, I rely more on the previous study than this one, but that's just me Smile
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"What Killed Tutankhamun?"
Quote:
"The text below was submitted to BBC History Magazine for a commissioned article entitled ‘What Killed Tutankhamun’, which was published, in its final, edited form, in the August 2014 issue. The magazine has not (as at 28 October) responded to my requests for a pdf of the final version.

What Killed Tutankhamun?

Chris Naunton (Egypt Exploration Society - EES) ..."

Greetings, Lutz.
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Ankhetmaatre
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YouTube link to the show: http://youtu.be/FXk-NbSWDs8

I remember some years ago reading in an article by Gillian Vogelsang-Eastwood that she believed Tutankhamen would have had very large hips for his size based on her study of his loincloths. Her articles and books are very hard to find these days, which is a shame because her unique study of his clothing could reveal a lot of important details about Tutankhamen's physicality as well cultural tendancies in general.

OT but I was able to find a link to her book Paraonic Egyptian Clothing , which is out of print now: http://www.mediafire.com/view/3y63ca16shaquoq/PharaonicEgyptianClothing_GillianVogelsang-Eastwood001.pdf
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Super, thanks for this link Ankhetmaatre (I can only recommend to everyone to download this PDF, a basic work).

Some of her works can be still ordered via this page : "Textile Research Centre Leiden".

I ordered there some years ago "Tutankhamun - Textiles and Clothing" for 10,- € + shipping.

Greetings, Lutz.

P.S.: Before I forget it again, I wanted to ask you some time if you might have access to "Hathi Trust Digital Library"? I think most of the U.S. universitys have...
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Ankhetmaatre
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't seen that yet, Lutz. Very interesting, thanks!
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you think you have access to the "Hathi Trust Digital Library"? If, want you marry me? Smile
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Ankhetmaatre
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't looked I to it but i should be able to so let me see what i can do. I'll get back to you.

(marriage is optional but I may need the soul of your firstborn. 😱)
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neseret
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ankhetmaatre wrote:
YouTube link to the show: http://youtu.be/FXk-NbSWDs8

I remember some years ago reading in an article by Gillian Vogelsang-Eastwood that she believed Tutankhamen would have had very large hips for his size based on her study of his loincloths.


Dr. Gillian Volgelsang-Eastwood, who mounted the exhibit of Tutankhamun's wardrobe, noted the young king did appear to have some form of physical abnormality. When discussing her report on another list, I said:

"From the clothing, it appears his bodily dimensions in life were

31 in. chest
29 in. waist
43 in. hips"

He was, in the media vernacular, "pear-shaped." However, his skeletal dimensions indicate nothing of the specific condition from which he suffered.

However, Tutankhamun was not particularly tall and thin, even by ancient Egyptian standards (he was about 5' 5"), about .5 inches taller than Amenhotep III, his putative grandfather. He also did not have 'wide hips' (from a skeletal viewpoint, that is) which can be a trait of Marfan's. He appears to have had large fatty deposits on his hips, however.

As for whether Tutankhamun actually had 'pigeon chest' or 'funnel chest' will never be known -- his sternum was removed during the mummification process, as had been the sternum of the male body in KV 55, which has a tentatively identification as Smenkhkare, and who has been serologically shown to be related to Tutankhamun, and by DNA, his putative father. It is as they always say in these types of studies in Egyptology, the parts that would answer everything are always missing. Very Happy

Ankhetmaatre wrote:
OT but I was able to find a link to her book Paraonic Egyptian Clothing , which is out of print now: http://www.mediafire.com/view/3y63ca16shaquoq/PharaonicEgyptianClothing_GillianVogelsang-Eastwood001.pdf


My thanks to you (and Lutz for the link to Tutankhamun's clothing) for these books. I have to teach a section on textiles next week, and couldn't locate the titles of Vogelsang-Eastwood's works on Tutankhamun's clothing which is my section to teach. So, I've now located (and/or downloaded) the books I need for next week, and thank goodness, Oxford's libraries have them (in English and Dutch).

I would particularly like to concentrate on Tutankhamun's so-called "christening gown" which was buried with him. As I haven't yet found Tutankhamun - Textiles and Clothing, yet, I'll pose this question to you both.

Is this "christening gowns" in either publication?

Good luck you two, on the marriage proposal! Laughing
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karnsculpture
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm into fitness and see other guys at my gym and pool in South London all the time, all shapes and sizes, and often see men with a shape similar to Tut or Akhenaten.

These guys are simply unfit and somewhat obese, and due to their body type the fat is concentrated on the hips, belly and chest, with the arms and lower legs plus neck relatively slim. These guys are often, but not always, from Southern Europe, the Middle East or Northern Africa (including two Egyptians I know of for sure, as we've spoken about the country). Both of the Egyptian guys have children and don't appear to have any medical abnormalities - they are just shaped like that. Due to modern clothing styles, their shape is less noticeable when they are dressed.

I would speculate that Tut and Akhenaten's depictions are merely a representation of their body type, albeit in an exaggerated way in some of the art, particularly from early in the latter's reign. They were kings, and if they weren't particularly athletic, this was probably their choice.

Paul
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neseret wrote:
... I have to teach a section on textiles next week, and couldn't locate the titles of Vogelsang-Eastwood's works on Tutankhamun's clothing which is my section to teach. So, I've now located (and/or downloaded) the books I need for next week, and thank goodness, Oxford's libraries have them (in English and Dutch).

I would particularly like to concentrate on Tutankhamun's so-called "christening gown" which was buried with him. As I haven't yet found Tutankhamun - Textiles and Clothing, yet, I'll pose this question to you both.

Is this "christening gowns" in either publication? ...

I would say no. Discussed are the "Duck-" (JE 62656, CN 50a) & the "Falcon - Tunic" (JE 62625, CN 367 i). But I scan the booklet (only 24 p.) and send it to you.

Do you have the JE or Carter Number of this "christening gown"? Sometimes these objects are also known under different names...

I also have...

Gillian Vogelsang-Eastwood : Die Kleider des Pharaos - Die Verwendung von Stoffen im Alten Ägypten. - Hannover & Amsterdam : Kestner-Museum / Batavian Lion, 1995. - ISBN : 9076073849. - 152 p., figs.

It is the German edition of the original Dutch "De kleren van de farao" (catalogue for a special exhibition, see AEB 1994.0684). The part about Tutankhamun has 10 p., I will scan them also. You get this later in the evening...

Maybe also worth a look : Tutankhamun's wardrobe : Exhibition

Margarita Nicolakaki-Kentrou : Affinities Between the Aegeanizing Mural Motifs from Malkata`s Site K and Contemporary Textile Icononography. - In: Proceedings of the Ninth International Congress of Egyptologists - Volume II. - [Orientalia Lovaniensia Analecta - OLA 150,2]. - Leuven, Paris, Dudley, MA, 2007. - pp. 1381 - 1390.
Keywords : DEKORATION, ÄGÄIS, MALQATA, DYN.18, TEXTILVERZIERUNG, TEXTILIEN, TUTANCHAMUN, TUNIKA, JE_62626

neseret wrote:
... Good luck you two, on the marriage proposal! lol:

We then send invitation hawks in the four cardinal directions and rent the Luxor temple when it is so far. But first I want to see the PDF's from Hathi Trust... Cool

Greetings, Lutz.
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Ankhetmaatre
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz, are you looking for titles for reference or whole books/articles?

Neseret, I've wondered for a long time now what percent of the total number of loincloths (149) Vogelsang-Eastwood was able to study. I wonder if any of these objects could have fallen into the "heirloom" category, such as the writing pallet of Meritaten or the shawl of Ankhenaten. Since there were a number of wine jars of Nebmaatre-Amenhotep might it be possible that some of the loincloths could have been his, or even Ankhenaten's. Idea I suppose I'll just have to order that book.

Also, very pleased to be of service about that title. I've always wondered why her books never got into wider circulation. It's almost as if publishers think people don't care about ancient textiles!

karnsculpture, I see a lot of people with similar pear shaped physique as well. A lot of them are resonably fit too. I've known a couple of very good hikers who where pretty hefty, but surprisingly agile. Of course, that shape flies in the face of all Tutankhamen's images but egyptian art wasn't meant to be literal. Even the Amarna art was highly stylized.

Once again, somewhat off topic but I recently watched a very good bbc doc about the evolution of the human form in art which had an interesting part about egyptian art and the human form. http://youtu.be/2eGRoSjp3Ik
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