Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The Kolbrin suggests Akhenaten had offspring with Meritaten
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Manu84
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 29 Oct 2014
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:14 pm    Post subject: The Kolbrin suggests Akhenaten had offspring with Meritaten Reply with quote

Hello forum.

I would like to share some accounts found in a book called The Kolbrin which refer to the Amarna period and give some intriguing perspectives regarding what happened during that time. The Kolbrin is a book that alleges to be of ancient origin but no hard evidence has been found regarding its authenticity. Some researchers and I have been investigating the claims made by the book for many years and trying to establish its provenance without attaining a definitive conclusion so far. Recently it was brought to our attention what the book tells regarding Akhenaten and Meritaten, triggered by the recent media coverage of Tutankamun's genetic defects due to inbreeding.

I am no expert in ancient Egypt nor do I claim to have much knowledge regarding this area of study, and that's precisely why I would like to get an opinion from some of you regarding these accounts found in the Kolbrin. Of course many will be inclined to dismiss the book's contents outright, yet I would appreciate if we could limit the discussion to the information I will share instead of about the kolbrin's authenticity or lack thereof.

Just for the record the Kolbrin was released to the public in 1992 despite its claims that a typewritten form existed since world war 2. No evidence of the original scrolls has ever been presented and most likely will never be.

I will now share the pertinent quotes from the book and hopefully some of you will find this of relevance and be able to offer some valuable opinions. Please note that the names in the Kolbrin exist in altered form. According to the book's claims this is due to the fact that the translators stemmed from different epochs and regions. Thus "Nabihaton"=Akhenaten, "Nefere"=Nefertiti, "Meriten"=Meritaten, and so forth. The chapter is very long so I will try to summarize as best as possible in order to show the pertinent information retaining somewhat of narrative thread to it. I will bolden the sections that specifically refer to Meritaten and Akhenaten.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Manu84
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 29 Oct 2014
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The generation of those days passed down into dust, their spirit arose in the Everlasting Halls, to stand before the Inescapable One. Then, in the generation of Pahopha, the name of Osireh began to be known in the land, and for twelve generations, it grew in greatness. The Upuru departed; the Ameluka came. Ten generations entered into their Eternal Habitations, and Tathomasis came, to make the name of Egypt known throughout all the lands. He, too, could no more stay the hand of decay than could the meanest slave. Then, in his day Nabihaton came to rule in the land of Egypt."

"The Pharaoh, the Great One of Egypt, was ill-formed in body, he was subject to uncontrolled trances unproductive of any vision. This was because at such times his spirit would withdraw, thus permitting a Dark One to enter its seat. He would fall down upon the ground, and the demon spume would issue from his mouth."

"The son of Nabihaton, one conceived in wickedness, was slain in battle; therefore, the younger son, one also born of the union of evil, became king in Egypt in his day. While yet young, he became a follower of the new rites of mystery, which his father had set up in imitation of the Mysteries of the Hidden God. As far as the faithful were concerned, the setting up of a new form of worship made little difference to their position in the land, but they did attempt to draw the young prince wholly within their fold. Because of his manner of life, the king, his father, was precluded from this."

"Nabihaton knew enough of the Secret Mysteries to realise that he would need a new place of worship, uncontaminated by previous concentration of the twin powers, if he were to succeed in opening even the first door. Therefore, he moved his court to a new city, within which was a temple outwardly dedicated to the New Light, which he enshrined before the Place of Flame. It was a sanctum for those, whom he called 'The Awakeners of the Spirit to Light. From this we get the expression, 'Light within the light behind the light', used even to this day. The priests of Amon were impoverished to pay for the new city."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Manu84
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 29 Oct 2014
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The king had a son by the Lady of Songstresses, one destined for greatness, though his greatness was not perceived by the eyes of men. When, later, this son was exiled to wander in strange places, his mother cast herself into the arms of Sebuk, but this is something, the telling of which has no place here. However, with the removal of the king's household to the new city, its power was diminished; the people under the two crowns became divided against themselves. The rulers became unsettled in their posts, and there were revolts in the colonies towards the East. It was a time of unease because of the dispersion of the power. Now also, because of the most grievous wickedness of the Pharaoh, all the protecting divinity of his blood, which, though diminished by the generations of wilfulness yet remained potent, was dissipated. Thus, all the land suffered and was restless."

"Then it was that some of the faithful from the city of the old royal residence, not from the new one as told, contacted the eyes and the ears of the king, so that the Pharaoh was counselled to take himself a wife. In this manner alone could the clamour of the people be stilled and their hearts put at ease. It was then that the High Priest at the Temple of the Visible Light, by a cunning move, brought the young princess called Nefare, in our tongue, before Pharaoh. She was a temple maiden, daughter of a king, and one devoted to The Great God in Silence."

"Pharaoh took her to wife, but he showed her little affection, though she was not unbeautiful, even if with a beauty not of this land. Nevertheless, in the eyes of the people, the marriage appeared successful enough, though perhaps the outward display of affection was overdone. Still the queen, being more frail than Egyptian women, could bear only daughters. There is another reason for this, but it cannot be gone into here with propriety. It is something between women. Things were not as they appeared, and Nefare despised the king in her heart for his secret wickedness."

"Now, as the years went down into dust, the land of Egypt crumbled and began to fall apart. Nefare, because she followed the pure light, could not dwell with Pharaoh while the life he led was an abomination against purity. She was an ever faithful one, though in her dissgust(word altered because it would bring up an emoticon), she must have been tempted to be otherwise. The queen removed herself and her household in the fifteenth year of the reign of Nabihaton. It was then put about, by those who licked the feet of Pharaoh, that she was a fickle woman of wanton ways. They said she was an adulteress and called upon her beauty to bear witness against her. What they said was false, it is equally false that all beautiful women are fickle and wanton. True, such women may be subjected to greater temptations, but if they resist these, are they not so much the greater? Are they not so much more what a beautiful woman should be, the true inspiration of men? Surely there can be no doubt that the Pharaoh was abnormal, for how could any but an abnormal one treat such a woman thus? Nefare sought refuge in Lebados, where there was a secret shrine to The Great God, and resigned herself to a life of great virtue."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Manu84
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 29 Oct 2014
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Within the City of the Horizon at Dawning was the Temple of the Sun's Dawning, at which Nabihaton officiated as High Priest, but after his return with Hepoa, he built a residential temple upriverwards, called 'The Sun's Blessing.' Some men have called it 'The Temple of the Blessing of Light'. This was erected in three courts, one of which was called 'Nefare's Memory', a place dedicated to womanly virtues. There, when she came of age, his daughter by Nefare, a maiden called Meriten, was consecrated in service. There is a description of this maiden in a scroll kept at the shrine dedicated to the Martyred Maidens of Chastity, at Nomin, the city of forgotten wickednesses. It says, "As I stood before the gate called 'Treasurer of Life,' on one pillar, of which was engraved the words 'When the eyes see, the ears hear, and the nose smells, they transmit to the spirit, that it understands."

"I saw the young daughter of the king. She was not tall or fat, and her feet were delicately formed. Her curls were long, but tied back from her face and anointed with sweetly fragrant oils. She passed close by, and I noticed her garments gave out a delicate perfume. Her eyes were large and unusually long-lashed. Her glance was soft and restrained; her whole bearing, modest. Her skin was lighter than the pale copper of Askent, like the cherished ostrich egg, soft as the finest oil. Her nose was perhaps slightly larger than usual, but fine and delicately formed. Her mouth was small, though the lips were full, and even then, tantalising with secret promise. About her head was a circlet of gold, and she wore a necklace of gold and blue stones. She was clad in a pure garment of fine linen fringed above and below with blue and red. Upon it were workings of gold ornamentation. On her arms were bracelets of burnished copper interwoven with gold and silver. She had just come from the sacred grove, and the glistening dew of morning still dampened the lower fringe of her robe. In one hand, she carried two small bells of copper, and in the other, a small hammer of gold.""
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Manu84
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 29 Oct 2014
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"It was after the consecration of Meriten that the eyes of Nabihaton wandered towards her lustfully, but perhaps, to do him justice, he should not be judged by the same standards as other men. He was the Pharaoh of Egypt, who, according to ageless tradition, was above wrongdoing. There is not much doubt but that, at this time, he was under the control of either a demon or a Dark One, which had taken possession of his heart. Also, he had been brought up to a code, where inter-family love and marriage were accepted as the rule, where the sanctity of the royal blood and the need for its conservation in purity was believed in as a law. Then, too, despite his unnatural longings, which he lacked the strength to control and subdue, there is no doubt that he could and did experience extremely deep feelings of affection. He also had an unusually strong, perhaps overwhelming appreciation of beauty, as can be seen by any of his writings still in existence, though few remain of the great many there once were, and these ever in danger. Anyway, he did take his daughter in awful wickedness, his evil thoughts displaying themselves uncontrollably. Now he took no care to hide them. Throughout the new city he, caused the name of Nefare to be struck out, and the name of Meriten was put in its place."

"Although it had been accepted that the kindred of the Pharaoh could inter-marry, any union between parent and child was absolutely forbidden. This law from days long past was still binding, though the law which decreed that any one of royal blood suffering a demon-induced deformity or becoming possessed by a Dark One should be given the draught of death, was no longer enforced. This proves how evil ensues when old and trusted laws established by the wise ones of old are cast aside. It is folly to thoughtlessly discard that, which has ever served well."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Manu84
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 29 Oct 2014
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Now, when Pharaoh took Meriten in grievous wickedness, the people murmured, but none arose among them to do more, for such is not the custom of the land. Towi, the great and good, who had lapsed into but one form of wickedness, was no longer there to restrain him. Nor in all probability, could she have done anything, for he was Pharaoh."

"The events that followed remain within a shadow, and none knows the truth, for it was a time of confusion. Meriten probably died of poison administered by her own hand, as was befitting. Her tomb is known, for she was not unhonoured. Some say the same potion slew the king, but others that he died of a Dark Demon within the heart. It seems that the poison was not a quick one and while Meriten died in her chamber, after pledging of the king was made, he fell forward with an issue of blood from his mouth. His spirit was heard in his throat. Thus, it does not appear that they were slain with the one cup. It is unlikely that Meriten died by any hand other than her own, though this is said."

"Some say the king died after being carried to his chamber, others that he recovered, but the truth is unknown, for at this time the signal was given, and the people arose in the streets. The new worship, which nevertheless, was an outgrowth from the bulb of Truth. died away as the growth dies back on an onion. But like an onion, the bulb remained. The new worship was not unwelcome in the land of Egypt and would have survived, had not its founder led an impure life. The hostility by priests of the other forms of worship would not alone have sufficed to extinguish its light. It was the maggot in the heart of the flower he raised that caused it to fall apart.To establish a pure form of worship and beliefs, its founder must also be pure of hands and heart."

"Whatever happened, Nabihaton was never placed within the tomb he had prepared for himself. Some say because Hepoa cursed it, but this I doubt. I know of such a curse, but I do not suppose Hepoa would have used it. Some say Pharaoh was buried with his wife, but who knows the name of the woman, in whose tomb he is said to lay? I think, however, it is more likely that he is a tombless wanderer, which is not so strange when the record is considered fully. As told, it is not beyond belief that such a fate could befall even a Pharaoh and does accord with the laws of olden days. The next Pharaoh married his sister, conceived in wickedness, and therefore died while yet young."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Manu84
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 29 Oct 2014
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Notice that the very last sentence clearly seems to make reference to Tutankamun, interestingly enough, without referring to any Smenkhare reigning in between. As per the Kolbrin's account it would seem Smenkhare never existed and Akhenaten and Meritaten were Tutankamun's parents. This however is not explicitly stated.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3626
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the more stupid conspiracy-apocalyptic-alien versions. It has definitely nothing to do with Ancient Egypt, and I venture to doubt whether it meets the forum rules...

The Kolbrin

If in this text actually the alleged incest story between Akhenaten and his daughters also was cobbled together, so this is at most a hint on its creation: Early 20th century? At that time there was in Egyptology a corresponding theory, however, done by the archaeological evidence now.
_________________
Ägyptologie - Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Manu84
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 29 Oct 2014
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for totally disregarding my initial petition. Regarding the aliens, I haven't found them so far, if you can quote the chapter I'd appreciate it.

Now being serious, I'd be interested in your claim about the text being based on early 20th century theories. That's precisely the kind of thing I came looking for. Could you be so kind to direct me to articles or authors relating to this?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3626
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manu84 wrote:
Thank you for totally disregarding my initial petition. ...

No problem, you are welcome. Always again with great pleasure.

Manu84 wrote:
... Regarding the aliens, I haven't found them so far, if you can quote the chapter I'd appreciate it. ...

Third parties have made ​​the connection. Google is your friend ...

Manu84 wrote:
... Now being serious, ...

That was good... laughing6 laughing5

Manu84 wrote:
... Could you be so kind to direct me to articles or authors relating to this?

To my knowledge has so far no serious Egyptologist wasted his time with this nonsense.
_________________
Ägyptologie - Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Medjay Archer
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 07 Apr 2014
Posts: 151

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So many fringe theorists... Confused
Why are there so many of them? Because it is easy to navigate through speculations? Is it because extravagant mysteries that fascinate people?
Seriously, where are those very compelling dilettantes in Egyptology. Posting here something compelling and not pottered. All I see is a lot of fringe theorists doing mental masturbation.

Sometimes, reality IS boring. Yeah... #Beer
No aliens, no mysterious linkage between Gilgamesh and the Romans, no Moses splitting the sea in half, etc.

I guess some people are so passionate they forget they delude themselves.

BTW, I don't try to diminish you OP. I'm trying to figure out the mindset of people so attracted to mystery shows like Ancient Aliens. While I eat epigraphic material like snacks and take it as they are (it says so, then it is; I don't try to speculate too far), others seemingly have a "political" goal in doing so. Like "I have to go through a bunch of material because I need to prove something I believe".

My point is: if someone wants to be rigorous, the book that will be perused is going to be rather abstract and at times boring (especially if the evidence is scarce). Sadly, people are too lazy going through that kind of book and prefer speculative books because it is pretended pabulum. Like fast food: fast and cheap gratification.
_________________
Kmt is not a racial term nor a reference to the black silt deposited on the Nile valley, but an expression of "standing on place wherein food is plenty, allowing to stop moving like the neighbouring nomads". -Asar Imhotep
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Manu84
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 29 Oct 2014
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
Manu84 wrote:
Thank you for totally disregarding my initial petition. ...

No problem, you are welcome. Always again with great pleasure.

Manu84 wrote:
... Regarding the aliens, I haven't found them so far, if you can quote the chapter I'd appreciate it. ...

Third parties have made ​​the connection. Google is your friend ...

Manu84 wrote:
... Now being serious, ...

That was good... laughing6 laughing5

Manu84 wrote:
... Could you be so kind to direct me to articles or authors relating to this?

To my knowledge has so far no serious Egyptologist wasted his time with this nonsense.


I'm referring to the 20th century theories that you mentioned.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Medjay Archer
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 07 Apr 2014
Posts: 151

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Manu

Before going to sleep, I just to say you have to expect strong opposition here. The remaining users logging at a regular base are serious people. Either they have background in Egyptology or have survived from Admun's wrath (i.e. no abuses against the forum's laws).

While my past post seemed to be a mock, I am not attacking at you specifically. There's a weird tendency around these forums with many past users doing strange speculations (or simply borborygmus).
_________________
Kmt is not a racial term nor a reference to the black silt deposited on the Nile valley, but an expression of "standing on place wherein food is plenty, allowing to stop moving like the neighbouring nomads". -Asar Imhotep
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Manu84
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 29 Oct 2014
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Medjay Archer wrote:
So many fringe theorists... Confused
Why are there so many of them? Because it is easy to navigate through speculations? Is it because extravagant mysteries that fascinate people?
Seriously, where are those very compelling dilettantes in Egyptology. Posting here something compelling and not pottered. All I see is a lot of fringe theorists doing mental masturbation.

Sometimes, reality IS boring. Yeah... #Beer
No aliens, no mysterious linkage between Gilgamesh and the Romans, no Moses splitting the sea in half, etc.

I guess some people are so passionate they forget they delude themselves.

BTW, I don't try to diminish you OP. I'm trying to figure out the mindset of people so attracted to mystery shows like Ancient Aliens. While I eat epigraphic material like snacks and take it as they are (it says so, then it is; I don't try to speculate too far), others seemingly have a "political" goal in doing so. Like "I have to go through a bunch of material because I need to prove something I believe".

My point is: if someone wants to be rigorous, the book that will be perused is going to be rather abstract and at times boring (especially if the evidence is scarce). Sadly, people are too lazy going through that kind of book and prefer speculative books because it is pretended pabulum. Like fast food: fast and cheap gratification.


No aliens in the Kolbrin, and I've read it several times through. Sometimes "third parties" just don't take the time to go through something and merely repeat what they heard somewhere else due to laziness.

Anyway I would really appreciate if we could stick to the topic of Meritaten and Akhenaten. I know some people believe they could possibly have married and others strongly disagree. It would be great to hear some opinions regarding this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Manu84
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 29 Oct 2014
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Medjay Archer wrote:
@Manu

Before going to sleep, I just to say you have to expect strong opposition here. The remaining users logging at a regular base are serious people. Either they have background in Egyptology or have survived from Admun's wrath (i.e. no abuses against the forum's laws).

While my past post seemed to be a mock, I am not attacking at you specifically. There's a weird tendency around these forums with many past users doing strange speculations (or simply borborygmus).


It's ok. I didn't come here to defend the Kolbrin from accusations of it being a hoax nor to push its position as the ultimate truth or anything remotely similar. I would simply like to know what the learned people with a background in Egyptology think about the possibility of Akhenaten and Meritaten having married. I'm sure there's many theories and counter theories about this which I'm not aware of. Also it'd be very interesting to know if some people believe these texts I quoted could be plagiarized from some early author or theory and from which timeframe. Everything helps, except ad-hominems, which lead nowhere because I simply don't care for personal attacks to me or to the book. To me unveiling more about the Kolbrin's provenance is a hobby and if I discovered conclusively that it is a hoax it would be as much a success as the opposite.

Much appreciated.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 1 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group