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Lost Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:34 pm    Post subject: Where I can found this pages? Reply with quote

Work on my progress on Faulkner's dictionary is in motion. I just got stuck with a next source, I mean I could not find it online:

Pyr. 1148.2067

I found only to the Pyr. 905. Is it needed source available online?

Thank you in advance.
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Lost Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be more precise, I need to find this word in that source:


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Aset
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TLA Exclamation

Arrow document DZA 22.672.280
and
Arrow document DZA 22.672.300

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Die Altaegyptischen Pyramidentexte nach den Papierabdrucken und Photographien des Berliner Museums,
Arrow vol2 cop3, object 145, 1188 b

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wdH with det. W 15 (Faulkner p. 73) 'Pyr. 2067' (b) see Arrow p. 505.

TLA, document Arrow DZA 22.672.330

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Lost Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you aset for detailed answer and useful link as always Smile Now I have a little problem with that "pour" hieroglyph at the end of the word, used as determinative. I found it in the Hanig sign list (if it is that), but it not the same as one from Pyramiden texte. Clearly, the one from Pyr. looks like a rectangle with horizontal and vertical lines intersecting inside it. I say, 2 horizontal and 4-5 vertical. Any support for my theory?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See Hannig's HSZ411, wdH Smile

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is not the same, I found it too, I can surely say that is not the same.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand your problem. Sad



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought about this version of the hieroglyph:



It was represented with filled interior of the rectangle. And also, as I can see, Hannig's 411 hieroglyph is not the same as the one from TLA and from the Pyramidentexte.

Version from your last post is the same as from Faulkner's dictionary, and that is ok Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And for the hieroglyph of jar with pouring water I would say that it is not W15, it is look more likely like W15A, because the water coming from the side of jar, not from the top (check Pyr. source). Only thing that doesn't fit is the water that in the Pyr. is not wavy as on original W15A hieroglyph. Could it be new version of W15A, or W15 itself?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say it is the usual W15, version "quick handwriting". Very Happy

And concerning HSZ411:
It is insignificant, if the rectangle is filled or not, the glyphs are written by hand (Pyramidentexte, TLA DZA-documents, Faulkner's dictionary, Möller's Paläographie ... and the original inscriptions also)!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only thing that can make situation 100% clear is if we can see original inscription of Pyramid Texts on the wall from which is Urkunden written Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have my doubts. It is not uncommon in one text written on a single object, one and the same hieroglyph appears in various written forms. A good example is the so-called "White Chapel" from the Middle Kingdom (Senuseret I.) in the Open Air Museum at Karnak Temple...

Greetings, Lutz.
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Lost Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am asking myself why that could be? What is the explanation for that occurence? I put myself in the position of scribe, or stone cutter, and I think that I would use always same palette of hieroglyphs...
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