Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Pharoahs of the Hebrew captivity
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Pharaohs and Queens
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Unas
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 245
Location: Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm not against ANY faith but, extreme positions may distort the way you see and analise things.


Interestingly, both you and Lutz use the word extreme. Where I'm from, however, most everybody takes the view that the Bible is perfectly true; it's not an extreme position at all in my area. I realize that this is not the case everywhere. Where are you from, Chepses?

Quote:
I know for a fact that even IF the Exodus happened, Ramesses II was not the king who witnessed it.


I agree completely with you. Whoever it was, it's not someone whose mummy exists!

Quote:
As long as everybody around here gets along without fighting, I'm good Smile


Sounds good! Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chepses
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I refer to extremism I mean to say when people are not that flexible when it comes to religion. That is, to accept that some things in one's religion may not be that right. Well, I have a very different view on religion so maybe that's the reason I think like that. I am like the ancient egyptians, completely open minded and religiously tolerant. As long as no one offends me, I will not offend anyone (although I know some people might be offended by the way I see religion but that's not a direct insult to someone, I guess). If you believe in the Bible, good for you. As I said, it's good and normal to have beliefs. I have my own Smile But you must expect divergent opinions. Not everyone have the same beliefs you have and one must respect the other. You just can't wait for everyone to believe the Bible or God. Or else you will face many other arguments :p

I'm from Portugal Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Robson
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1007
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And besides, regarding to Christianism, both Saint Augustine and Thomas of Aquinas, already established that religious authority field is faith and moral. For the knowledge of mundane/material issues God gave us intellect and capacity to know and transform the world. It, of course, changed with anti-intellectualist 20th Century US born Evangelical tradition.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Unas
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 245
Location: Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But some of the misstatements I could not leave uncommented...


Why? Smile

Quote:
I'm going by historical science and as long as it's not proven, I'm not believing it.


But don't you find that even when taking a strictly materialistic worldview, you still find yourself having to rely on personal beliefs--"faith" for lack of a better word? I'm curious what you do when faced with a matter such as...the origin of life, for example. On this topic there are accepted scientific theories, but definitely no "proven" answer. In your worldview, I imagine, the logical answer would be, "Science is working on how life evolved from non-living material. Just because we don't understand the specifics doesn't mean it didn't happen." But isn't this "faith"? Isn't this believing in something that isn't proven?

I'm not challenging your right to your opinion, I'm just curious about how you work through issues like those.




\
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chepses
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But I'm not saying I believe it or not because «God» said so. The origin of life is in fact a mystery but not a total mystery. It's about simple cells that started to organize together, living in something like a symbyosis. It started to get more and more complex and eventually autotrophic living beings originated. Of course, it is easier to say: "The origin of life is God. God gave life". I'll respect if you think that way but I'm not buying it. And when science doesn't know, it gives us probabilities, like "this probably happened this way" or "it may have happened this way". Scientific certainty is only attained when you can prove it Smile

I deal with everything in a very special way. I take a scientific approach on everything. But, I do recognize that the Universe has a lot of things that science cannot explain. Does that mean that God exists? Not for me, it means, as said, that science cannot explain it, yet. I'll give you a very simple example. Some years ago, an epileptic seizure was perceived as a demonic posession. When medicine evolved, scientists found out that it was a neurological disease. My point is to say that it is easier to "blame" God when you don't know/can't explain something. But eventually, there will be an explanation. That's how I perceive things Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 4060
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unas wrote:
Lutz wrote:
But some of the misstatements I could not leave uncommented...

Why? Smile ...

Because, so far as I know, this forum has not prescribed the dissemination of half- and untruths.
_________________
Ägyptologie Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Unas
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 245
Location: Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But eventually, there will be an explanation. That's how I perceive things Smile


Thanks for your explanation, it was interesting. And thanks for your kind replies.
Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Unas
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 245
Location: Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Because, so far as I know, this forum has not prescribed the dissemination of half- and untruths.


I asked a few questions, quoted a few quotes, and shared my feelings/opinions, which you are of course free to ignore. Laughing I don't see this as spreading falsehoods. Maybe you do. That would your opinion, and that's okay, too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chepses
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unas wrote:
Quote:
But eventually, there will be an explanation. That's how I perceive things Smile


Thanks for your explanation, it was interesting. And thanks for your kind replies.
Smile


I know that maybe my way of seeing and analise things is a bit... different. I just absorbed so many things in my life, learned a lot of things and started to build my own mental representation of the world and of our place in the whole Universe. Some people call it God, some call it Allah and some may call it Yahveh, Buda, Tao, whatever. I call it Universe, and we are a part of it, although I believe we are a very small, almost insignificant part of it. The Universe has many things we don't know, but I think that some secrets will always remain like that. That's my belief. the Universe and the energies that surround it and us Smile I know this has been a huge off-topic but I think it's healthy when we get into academic discussions, respecting everyone, without insulting or offending people. Just sharing thoughts and ideas and always have in mind that every single one of us sees the world in a different way. We just need to know that there is room for everyone Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 4060
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unas wrote:
Quote:
Because, so far as I know, this forum has not prescribed the dissemination of half- and untruths.

I asked a few questions, quoted a few quotes, and shared my feelings/opinions, ...

And I did not write anything for / about / against your semi- or falsehoods specifically ... I have very consciously formulated in general, based on your quotes (TV Show Brier).
_________________
Ägyptologie Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Unas
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 245
Location: Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
(TV Show Brier).


This reminds me, I saw him hosting a program a couple of years ago about the internal ramp theory for the building of the pyramids...does anyone know whatever happened with that? I don't hear about it anymore...did that idea just fail to gain support?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chepses
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I'm aware, the ramp system for the pyramids building is still the most accepted Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naunacht
Priest
Priest


Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 515
Location: U.S. NJ

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bottom line is that if you believe that the Bible is literally true, if you are a fundamentalist, then nothing anyone can say will change your mind. If you believe that the Bible is a mix of myth, philosophy, historical traditions and metaphor--the approach taken by Catholics, many mainstream Protestants and reformed Jews and don't insist that every word it historical fact then it becomes much more easy to see that the Exodus story comes from a whole bunch of sources, some mythological, some from traditional history, some which may have happened to the ancestors of the people who eventually became the Jews and some which happened to other people in the region all of it blended into a hell of a good story over many generation which eventually proved inspirational for the foundation of a nation and a religion. I don't know if Moses ever actually existed--but he's a seminal figure in history nonetheless.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Unas
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 245
Location: Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And besides, regarding to Christianism, both Saint Augustine and Thomas of Aquinas, already established that religious authority field is faith and moral. For the knowledge of mundane/material issues God gave us intellect and capacity to know and transform the world.


This reminds me of a favorite quote of mine; I won't get into the details, but the just of it is that two people are having a disagreement/argument, until one of them tries to use a Christian perspective to drive home her argument. Her opponent tells her, "Don't go dragging God into this!" Laughing

My point is, I don't see how one can compartmentalize God that way. People may try, but He is omnipotent and should be a part of even everyday issues.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Unas
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 245
Location: Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The bottom line is that if you believe that the Bible is literally true, if you are a fundamentalist, then nothing anyone can say will change your mind.


Care to expound on this at all? What do you think?

Quote:
If you believe that the Bible is a mix of myth, philosophy, historical traditions and metaphor--the approach taken by Catholics, many mainstream Protestants and reformed Jews and don't insist that every word it historical fact then it becomes much more easy to see that the Exodus story comes from a whole bunch of sources, some mythological, some from traditional history, some which may have happened to the ancestors of the people who eventually became the Jews and some which happened to other people in the region all of it blended into a hell of a good story over many generation which eventually proved inspirational for the foundation of a nation and a religion.


Positions that "compromise" like this, in my view, can lead to problems...suffice to say it's not unlike the quote I mentioned about "Don't go dragging God into this." In some cases it can lead to "picking and choosing," with a person gladly accepting the Bible's "love" message, while choosing to glaze over other parts. Of course people will always have different interpretations, I certainly understand that.

Quote:
I don't know if Moses ever actually existed--but he's a seminal figure in history nonetheless.


One quick thought, many Christians naturally believe in the literal life of Jesus. Then in Mark 9:4 you have Jesus conducting a conversation with Moses...if you take the position that Jesus is real, it seems to follow that Moses is real, too.

What are your own thoughts/positions, Naunacht?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Pharaohs and Queens All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 3 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group