Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Nicholas Reeves : The Burial of Nefertiti? (2015)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 30, 31, 32  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Unas
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 243
Location: Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The director of Factum Arte, Adam Lowe, pointed Reeves to the fact that the mold at the places designated by Reeves would more pronounced than at the remaining space...


That's is a very interesting observation.

Here's a thought--and I'm sure there's a reason why this wouldn't work--but might it be possible to attempt to access the proposed Nefertiti tomb from some other direction? Could someone dig towards the hypothetical tomb without disturbing Tut's?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
A M Street
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 25 Nov 2011
Posts: 174
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Could someone dig towards the hypothetical tomb without disturbing Tut's?


Why bother?

As others have stated here radar used correctly is a non-intrusive methodology and given that Factum Arte have already scamnned the tomb it wouldn't be as if the surveyors had to do the whole tomb. They already have an idea where to look.

They could come in at the north west and south east corners but as KV 9 overlies KV62 that is not really an option.

No, radar is the answer and it has a much better chance of being approved than any other method.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3757
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A M Street wrote:
... radar is the answer and it has a much better chance of being approved than any other method.

And one has already experience : "Another New Tomb in the Valley of the Kings?". - In: Ancient Egypt 7/1, Issue 37. - October/November 2006. - pp. 31 - 34).

Greetings, Lutz.
_________________
Ägyptologie - Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Unas
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 243
Location: Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True. I meant later, if the radar results proved positive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
evarelap
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 28 Jan 2015
Posts: 102
Location: Barranquilla, Colombia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
A M Street wrote:
... radar is the answer and it has a much better chance of being approved than any other method.

And one has already experience : "Another New Tomb in the Valley of the Kings?". - In: Ancient Egypt 7/1, Issue 37. - October/November 2006. - pp. 31 - 34).

Greetings, Lutz.


If they do find a new tomb behind the north wall in KV62, will they number it KV64? KV65? How does the numbering of tombs work?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karnsculpture
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 253

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would still be KV62 but an awful lot of books and websites will need updating!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
freeTinker
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 397
Location: USA - Northeast

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
freeTinker wrote:
... I keep reading about there being (at least) two instances of intrusion or tomb robbery of KV62 in antiquity, what is the evidence is for these intrusions?

Lutz wrote:
...Of course one can not really be sure here. But the situation on the sealed / broken / resealed doors (tomb and antechamber) probably allows for such a scenario. ...

Stephen W. Cross : The Re-Sealing of KV 62. - In: Aincent Egypt 10-11. - 2009. - pp. 16 - 22, from page 17 :



I think the three different sealing`s of the tomb are good visible on the drawing by Steve Cross, after a photo made by Howard Carter. A = The original sealing. Broken and re-sealed with B. And B broken in again and most of it re-sealed with C.

Greetings, Lutz.


Thx for that Lutz, I also found Reeve's description of the same which he described as being at the top-right. My thinking was that if there is indeed another tomb or reburial behind Tut's, and that this were the original purpose for KV62, then there might have been signs (perhaps previously misinterpreted) of a reopening of the original tomb to allow for Tut's burial. Because of the nature and size of the intrusion it seems this is not evidence of such.

Although the original Nefertiti burial, if it does prove to exist, would surely have been sealed, I am guessing that any evidence of that reopening and subsequent resealing would have been lost in the Tut burial process?!

Fascinating.
_________________
Est modus in rebus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ikon
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the invitation of Egyptian minister of antiquities, Mamdouh Eldamaty, Nicholas Reeves will arrive in Egypt in mid September to attempt to prove his theory. So I think that perhaps by this time next month we may at least know if there are hidden doors or not. Let's hope there are.....
http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/138228.aspx
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Priest of Hekat
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 30 Sep 2010
Posts: 168
Location: Luxor, West Bank

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be hovering nearby to find out the outcome!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
A M Street
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 25 Nov 2011
Posts: 174
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they did actually find that KV62 has an extension, then what?

I'm no Egyptologist just an ordinary ex-field archaeologist so I don't know what the current thinking is about excavations in Egypt.

Here in the UK the general feeling is if it's not in danger, leave it where it is, it's not going anywhere and it'll be a lot more secure and stable.

How many times have we said "A pity that the site was so badly excavated, and where is the report?" Just look at what we have lost with sites such as KV55 botched by Theodore Davis.

If something is found the most I would hope for would be an endoscopic examination much as was done at the Great Pyramid. Having said that I can see that there might be problems. Given the unsettled state of Egypt at the moment the site might be described as being potentially in danger.. Add that to the possibility of corruption then opening any areas found may be the best solution. After all, tomb robbing has a long history in Egypt.

One thing, if anything is found and a decision is made to excavate, I would not like to be in the director's shoes. Talk about responsibility! They would be working with the entire world looking over their shoulder.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
arthur
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever anyone might think of Howard carter as a personality, there is no denying that he was a superb excavator with decades of field experience by the time he started clearing the Antechamber. I am sure that he would have gone around tapping the walls, checking for concealed openings.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
herper
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 18 Feb 2010
Posts: 229
Location: New Haven,CT USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A.M. Street, unfortunately the word is out about possible chambers being found. Sadly tomb robbing is still aa plague on A.E. sites due to the wealth that was placed in Royal tombs. Leaving any found chambers intact would just invite trouble and the possible loss of artifacts,and the knowledge that could be gained from them. And excavating under intense media coverage is very stressful but Carter did it for years.And with cable channels wanting live footage I can't even imagine the hell it most have put/is putting on men like Kent Weeks (KV5), Otto Schaden(KV63), Barry Kemp (Amarna), and many others.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3757
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicholas Reeves : The Burial of Nefertiti? Addenda and Corrigenda (2015, 1 page)

Greetings, Lutz.
_________________
Ägyptologie - Forum (German)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Nefertum
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

freeTinker wrote:


The evidence of the 'Hatsepsut-like' orientation (turning) of the corridor indicating the possible original purpose of KV62 being for burial of a female king seems compelling, are there any other instances of this?



Since no-one else has responded to this particular point of yours, I thought I'd give it a whirl. Keep in mind that I'm only an interested amateur, and so my remarks are only those of an amateur.

There is no specific answer to this particular question. The closest I'd venture would be to say that maybe there was some sort of contemporary convention, although it doesn't seem to have been always followed. Middle Kingdom tombs seem to follow no particular convention. There are tombs with a straight shot to the tomb chamber, without a bend (ex: Amenemhat II), and there are tombs with multiple bends to the axis. Amenemhat III's tomb at Dashur has two chambers. The corridors leading to them bend respectively R/R/L/L (the first) and R/L/R/L (the second). His other tomb, at Hawara, bends R/L/L/L. Of the two tombs ascribed to Senwosret II, one has a single bend to the left, and the other has a single bend to the right.

Moving on to the New Kingdom, there's a tomb or cenotaph ascribed to Ahmose, with a serpentine corridor, which bends to both the right and left. The convention in the later part of the 18th Dynasty does seem to be for a left-bend in axis for a king. There are some exceptions. There's one which has two left-bends (KV43, Thutmose IV) and one which has a left-bend to the corridor, and then has the axis change through a right-bend at the burial chamber (WV22, Amenhotep III). There's KV39, which seems to have been a straight shot down, and then stopped. Later, two other corridors were dug, each ending in a chamber. The first turns to the L of the original corridor. The second turns to the L again from that. The tomb, as far as I know, is unascribed. The last I know of was that there have been findings which could ascribe it to a particular king, but those have never been published. There are a couple of unascribed minor tombs which are thought to have possibly been kingly (in that they contain a well-chamber), whose evidence is equivocal. At least one is straight (I'm going on memory) and one (although hypothetically ascribed to a queen) has the axis bend to the left, slightly. And then there's KV23, which was unequivocally dug for a Queen, which bends to the left. The foundation deposits were in the name of Hatshepsut-Meryetre, the great royal wife of Thutmose III, although the tomb was apparently never used by her.

The mortuary temples, or the Houses of Millions of Years, might provide some suggestions, especially as fully developed in the second half of the 18th dynasty, and on through the 19th to the earlier part of the 20th. Proceeding along the straight axis from the entrance of the temple toward the ultimate sanctuary, one would find a palace to one's left. That is to say, walking though, one would discover the king's body (whether the living body or its spirit) to one's left. There have also been some suggestions that a palace once sat in a comparable position at the entrance to the temple at Karnak, but I'm not sure how much evidence there is to back that up. Again, at Karnak, there are some suggestions that, as originally built, one reached the end of the straight axis, only to discover the actual sanctuary to one's left.

In as far as I know, from the archaeological remains, there is no such suggestion that one would find the king's body or person positioned in such a place in any of the known residential palaces, or the apparently non-residential ones, such as Malkata.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nefertum
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the whole, I think I'd have been happier if this hadn't been presented the way it was. There certainly seems to be some evidence that there may be something behind the walls. What that may be, I don't know, although it is of great interest. Some of the further speculations don't necessarily seem to add up.

There could be simply the starts of some unfinished, abandoned chambers behind the walls. There is some evidence that a rather longish interval occurred between the King's death and the time of his burial. When the powers that be finally reached their decision as to what they were going to do, they could have simply slapped up some walls to cover up what was unfinished at that point in time. Having two separate sets of workmen at work on a tomb was rather the norm, as I understand things. One of those having an origin in Amarna wouldn't seem that out of place at that time.

Nefertiti as Dakamunzu, and the author of the statement, 'My husband died. A son I have not', seems problematic. If so, what and who is Tut? If he is not her son, does the statement also suggest he is not her husband's? And if he was her husband's son, and she was overlooking him, I somehow cannot imagine that her assumption of the throne would not be viewed as a usurpation, by many of those in positions of some power.

To suggest that Nefertiti outlived her husband does not seem unreasonable, given the evidence which exists. There is the attestation of her, as living, at the very end of his reign. There are the sarcophagi from his tomb, none of which were for her. There is the one shabti inscribed with her name, but which may be meaningless in this context. Something similar exists with a provenance from the tomb of Amenhotep III, but no-one reasonably suggests that Tiye predeceased him.

Tut as Akhenaten's son has always seemed problematic to me. If he was his son, why did he not succeed him ... or to put it more concisely, which did he not succeed him directly? Instead, we have this interregnum of possibly up to four years, with one or possibly two others on the throne, one of them a woman. That an older brother might have been given precedence in the succession doesn't seem at all unlikely. That a woman stepped into it, does ... if he was the king's son. If he was, there was no necessity nor any reason for her to be there. Why would she be given the throne when (or if) her husband had a living son?

Assuming just for the moment that this was Nefertiti's tomb, then another question seems to arise, and that has to do with Ankhesenamun. From the death of her husband, without an apparent heir, to the time it was decided what to do (by whomever), she would seem to be left standing at the centre of things, if perhaps without a great deal of actual power. Did she consent, and if so, why? Did she consent to having the tomb of her mother, if that's what it was, be at best disturbed, and most despoiled and desecrated?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 30, 31, 32  Next
Page 4 of 32

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group