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Who was Neferneferaten?

 
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Alex
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:59 pm    Post subject: Who was Neferneferaten? Reply with quote

I've always been an avid reader of ancient Egyptian history particularly the Amarna Period. With all the exciting news now about the new mysterious chambers in Tutankhamun's tomb, I keep hearing the name Neferneferaten. She seems to have been Pharaoh in the mysterious period between Akhenaten's death & the decline of the Aten religion, and the ascendance of King Tut. I've heard reports that the mask of Tutankhamun has been found to have faint traces of the royal name of Neferneferaten, which were removed, and I believe there were also some other fairly vague references to her found in his tomb. So who was she?

I've read some about Hatshepsut, the famous earlier queen who ruled as pharaoh while Tuthmosis III was still very young. Could Nefertiti have done the same after her husband's death, as Neferneferaten? Or could Neferneferaten be another of the younger Amarna princesses? Or even Meritaten the eldest? It's so intriguing and I hope we get answers soon.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Who was Neferneferaten? Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
I've always been an avid reader of ancient Egyptian history particularly the Amarna Period. With all the exciting news now about the new mysterious chambers in Tutankhamun's tomb, I keep hearing the name Neferneferaten. She seems to have been Pharaoh in the mysterious period between Akhenaten's death & the decline of the Aten religion, and the ascendance of King Tut. I've heard reports that the mask of Tutankhamun has been found to have faint traces of the royal name of Neferneferaten, which were removed, and I believe there were also some other fairly vague references to her found in his tomb. So who was she?

I've read some about Hatshepsut, the famous earlier queen who ruled as pharaoh while Tuthmosis III was still very young. Could Nefertiti have done the same after her husband's death, as Neferneferaten? Or could Neferneferaten be another of the younger Amarna princesses? Or even Meritaten the eldest? It's so intriguing and I hope we get answers soon.


"King Neferneferuaten" is the name given for an ephemeral "king/queen" who appears to have ruled after Akhenaten, with the throne name of Ankhkheperure. This appears to be a separate ruler from the ruler called "Smenkhkare," who had a variant of the same throne name, Ankhkheperure Smenkhkare Djeserkheperu. James Allen (1994) first proposed that we should see the name of Neferneferuaten as a separate throne name (and individual) after noting that the name does appear solely by itself, sometimes with a feminine form of Ankhkheperuret. This king appears to have had a 3-year reign, while the male king, Smenkhkare, appears to have ruled possibly for no longer than 1 year. The exact sequence of these rulers is presently debatable, with some arguing that Smenkhkare ruled first, and others proposing that "King Neferneferuaten" ruled directly after Akhenaten.

In concluding, Allen stated:

"...Either, therefore, the Smenkh-ka-re set of names represents a later stage in the career of the female pharaoh Nefer-neferu-aton, or it belongs to a separate individual. Proponents of Nefertiti's kingship have argued vigorously for the first interpretation, claiming that "there is as yet no valid evidence that a youth called Smenkh-ka-re existed." But the evidence itself does not demand an identification of Smenkh-ka-re with Nefer-neferu-aton, and in fact the insistence that the two sets of names must belong to a single individual only weakens each case.

Arguments for a male Nefer-neferu-aton run into difficulty with the clear feminine variants of the prenomen. Krauss's solution, assigning these variants to Merit-aton as queen regnant, has no firm supporting evidence, and the evidence that does exist is much less compelling than that linking the Nefer-neferu-aton set of names as a whole with Nefertiti.

Arguments for a female Smenkh-ka-re, on the other hand, are based primarily on the use of anx xprwra as prenomen. As shown above, however, there is a clear distinction between this use and that of the same name in the Nefer-neferu-aton set of names. Any other argumentation is essentially from silence - for example, that absence of the epithets using Akhenaton's names reflects that king's death. In any case, the burial in Tomb 55 must constitute a major impediment to any theory based on a single female pharaoh. While no inscriptional evidence remains to connect this burial with the king called Smenkh-ka-re, who else could it be?
" (Allen 1994: 16)

In 1994, Allen was prone to associate the "King Neferneferuaten" ruler with Nefertiti based upon the /nfr-nfrw-itn/ element being part of Nefertiti's epithetical names. By 2006, he had reconsidered this stance, and issued a new article, "The Amarna Succession," (published in 2009) in which he proposed that instead one should see "King Neferneferuaten" as indeed the 4th daughter of Akhenaten, also named Neferneferuaten. His arguments for this identification are compelling, though not all Egyptologists are in agreement with them.

In summary, Allen noted:

"...In the second set, elements of both cartouches are occasionally marked as feminine: the prenomen as anxt-xprw-ra and the relative form “desired” in the epithets as mrt; in addition, the epithet “desired of Waenre [Akhenaten]” in the nomen is occasionally replaced by Axt n h(j).s “effective for her husband,” and the names can be followed by the feminine attributes anx.tj Dt “alive forever” and mAat xrw “justified.” (Allen 2009: 11)

As Allen indicates, other Egyptologists have identified this "King Neferneferuaten" with not only Nefertiti, but also with Meritaten, the 2nd daughter of Akhenaten, as well as the daughter Neferneferuaten. As far as I am aware, all are considered viable candidates at this point.

The search for this ephemeral king may have had its origins in Manetho's Histories, in which his kinglist mentions a female ruler after "Acencheres", a name often associated as a Greek form of Akhenaten. This female ruler is often referred to as "Acencheres I" or "Acencheres II" - that is, another form of Akhenaten's name - and appears after "Rathotis", a name often associated with Tutankhamun by some Manethian scholars.

However, "Acencheres I/II" usually appears out of sequence - appearing after Rathotis - which begs the question of whether the Manethian list is accurate, based upon what we know of the post-Tutankhamun period. However, as Ay assumed the throne after Tutankhamun as Ay it nTr xpr-xprw-ra, it is argued that possibly the second "Acencheres II" could be a garbled version of this throne name.

Reference:

Allen, J. P.1994. Nefertiti and Smenkh-ka-re. Göttinger Miszellen 141: 7-17.

Allen, J. P. 2009. The Amarna Succession. In P. Brand and L. Cooper, Eds., Causing His Name to Live: Studies in Egyptian Epigraphy and History in Memory of William J. Murnane: 9-20. Culture and History of the Ancient Near East Volume 37. Leiden: Brill.

Verbrugghe, G. P. and J. M. Wickersham. 1996. Berossos and Manetho: Introduced and Translated. Native Traditions in Ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt. Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press.

HTH.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Who was Neferneferaten? Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
I've always been an avid reader of ancient Egyptian history particularly the Amarna Period. With all the exciting news now about the new mysterious chambers in Tutankhamun's tomb, I keep hearing the name Neferneferaten. She seems to have been Pharaoh in the mysterious period between Akhenaten's death & the decline of the Aten religion, and the ascendance of King Tut. I've heard reports that the mask of Tutankhamun has been found to have faint traces of the royal name of Neferneferaten, which were removed, and I believe there were also some other fairly vague references to her found in his tomb. So who was she?

I've read some about Hatshepsut, the famous earlier queen who ruled as pharaoh while Tuthmosis III was still very young. Could Nefertiti have done the same after her husband's death, as Neferneferaten? Or could Neferneferaten be another of the younger Amarna princesses? Or even Meritaten the eldest? It's so intriguing and I hope we get answers soon.


"King Neferneferuaten" is the name given for an ephemeral "king/queen" who appears to have ruled after Akhenaten, with the throne name of Ankhkheperure. This appears to be a separate ruler from the ruler called "Smenkhkare," who had a variant of the same throne name, Ankhkheperure Smenkhkare Djeserkheperu. James Allen (1994) first proposed that we should see the name of Neferneferuaten as a separate throne name (and individual) after noting that the name does appear solely by itself, sometimes with a feminine form of Ankhkheperuret. This king appears to have had a 3-year reign, while the male king, Smenkhkare, appears to have ruled possibly for no longer than 1 year. The exact sequence of these rulers is presently debatable, with some arguing that Smenkhkare ruled first, and others proposing that "King Neferneferuaten" ruled directly after Akhenaten.

In concluding, Allen stated:

"...Either, therefore, the Smenkh-ka-re set of names represents a later stage in the career of the female pharaoh Nefer-neferu-aton, or it belongs to a separate individual. Proponents of Nefertiti's kingship have argued vigorously for the first interpretation, claiming that "there is as yet no valid evidence that a youth called Smenkh-ka-re existed." But the evidence itself does not demand an identification of Smenkh-ka-re with Nefer-neferu-aton, and in fact the insistence that the two sets of names must belong to a single individual only weakens each case.

Arguments for a male Nefer-neferu-aton run into difficulty with the clear feminine variants of the prenomen. Krauss's solution, assigning these variants to Merit-aton as queen regnant, has no firm supporting evidence, and the evidence that does exist is much less compelling than that linking the Nefer-neferu-aton set of names as a whole with Nefertiti.

Arguments for a female Smenkh-ka-re, on the other hand, are based primarily on the use of anx xprwra as prenomen. As shown above, however, there is a clear distinction between this use and that of the same name in the Nefer-neferu-aton set of names. Any other argumentation is essentially from silence - for example, that absence of the epithets using Akhenaton's names reflects that king's death. In any case, the burial in Tomb 55 must constitute a major impediment to any theory based on a single female pharaoh. While no inscriptional evidence remains to connect this burial with the king called Smenkh-ka-re, who else could it be?
" (Allen 1994: 16)

In 1994, Allen was prone to associate the "King Neferneferuaten" ruler with Nefertiti based upon the /nfr-nfrw-itn/ element being part of Nefertiti's epithetical names. By 2006, he had reconsidered this stance, and issued a new article, "The Amarna Succession," (published in 2009) in which he proposed that instead one should see "King Neferneferuaten" as indeed the 4th daughter of Akhenaten, also named Neferneferuaten. His arguments for this identification are compelling, though not all Egyptologists are in agreement with them.

In summary, Allen noted:

"...In the second set, elements of both cartouches are occasionally marked as feminine: the prenomen as anxt-xprw-ra and the relative form “desired” in the epithets as mrt; in addition, the epithet “desired of Waenre [Akhenaten]” in the nomen is occasionally replaced by Axt n h(j).s “effective for her husband,” and the names can be followed by the feminine attributes anx.tj Dt “alive forever” and mAat xrw “justified.” (Allen 2009: 11)

As Allen indicates, other Egyptologists have identified this "King Neferneferuaten" with not only Nefertiti, but also with Meritaten, the 2nd daughter of Akhenaten, as well as the daughter Neferneferuaten. As far as I am aware, all are considered viable candidates at this point.

The search for this ephemeral king may have had its origins in Manetho's Histories, in which his kinglist mentions a female ruler after "Acencheres", a name often associated as a Greek form of Akhenaten. This female ruler is often referred to as "Acencheres I" or "Acencheres II" - that is, another form of Akhenaten's name - and appears after "Rathotis", a name often associated with Tutankhamun by some Manethian scholars.

However, "Acencheres I/II" usually appears out of sequence - appearing after Rathotis - which begs the question of whether the Manethian list is accurate, based upon what we know of the post-Tutankhamun period. However, as Ay assumed the throne after Tutankhamun as Ay it nTr xpr-xprw-ra, it is argued that possibly the second "Acencheres II" could be a garbled version of this throne name.

Reference:

Allen, J. P.1994. Nefertiti and Smenkh-ka-re. Göttinger Miszellen 141: 7-17.

Allen, J. P. 2009. The Amarna Succession. In P. Brand and L. Cooper, Eds., Causing His Name to Live: Studies in Egyptian Epigraphy and History in Memory of William J. Murnane: 9-20. Culture and History of the Ancient Near East Volume 37. Leiden: Brill.

Verbrugghe, G. P. and J. M. Wickersham. 1996. Berossos and Manetho: Introduced and Translated. Native Traditions in Ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt. Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press.

HTH.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very informative, thanks! So who do you think Neferneferaten is, Nefertiti, or Meritaten? It would seem to be one of them. I also hear that Meritaten's name has been referred to on tablets as Mistress of the Household or some other references that would indicate that she was maybe Pharaoh.

ALso, between Nefertiti, Meritaten, or Kiya, who would be the most likely to be in the hidden chamber in KV62, assuming there is someone in there? They would likely have been very close to Tutankhamun for him to be interred in the side chamber if in fact that's the case. SO which is the most likely candidate?
It would seem that whoever it is is probably Neferneferaten, the question is just which of those three ladies is Neferneferaten.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
Very informative, thanks! So who do you think Neferneferaten is, Nefertiti, or Meritaten? It would seem to be one of them. I also hear that Meritaten's name has been referred to on tablets as Mistress of the Household or some other references that would indicate that she was maybe Pharaoh.

ALso, between Nefertiti, Meritaten, or Kiya, who would be the most likely to be in the hidden chamber in KV62, assuming there is someone in there? They would likely have been very close to Tutankhamun for him to be interred in the side chamber if in fact that's the case. SO which is the most likely candidate?
It would seem that whoever it is is probably Neferneferaten, the question is just which of those three ladies is Neferneferaten.


Please note: the name is spelled NEFER-NEFERU-ATEN, not Neferneferaten.

The name means "Perfect are the Beauties of the Aten."

To be honest, I have no idea which woman is "King Neferneferuaten": Allen (to me) makes the most sense in suggesting she was (ta da!) Neferneferuaten (-tasherit [Jr.]), the 4th daughter of Akhenaten and Nefertiti, and that she served as her father's Great Royal Wife after the death of Nefertiti. The titles alone seem to suggest such a scenario.

Of course, we may ALL be wrong, and like the mother of Tutankhamun, it turns out she was a sibling of Akhenaten, being one of the many princesses of Amenhotep III and Tiye, and NOT Nefertiti.

HTH.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the clarification. That's very interesting, you made some excellent points. I've read about all of Akhenaten & Nefertiti's daughters, it seems the eldest three are more well known than the younger three.

It does seem quite possible that the Pharaoh Neferneferuaten could in fact be Neferneferuaten-tasherit rather than Nefertiti or Meritaten. In such a scenario, perhaps Akhenaten had taken her as a great royal wife as you suggest, & after his death, she ruled as King Neferneferuaten.

It also makes sense in that she would not have needed to change her name. But, if we are talking about Neferneferuaten-tasherit, she would have been very very young still, after Akhenaten's death, although of course in ancient Egypt this would not have prevented her from becoming Great Royal Wife or Pharaoh.

It seems very little is known about her, but I do think her name alone makes her a very likely candidate for whoever is buried in KV62 assuming there is a hidden tomb in there.

Perhaps she did become king and reign for a brief period, distancing herself from the Aten religion & began the process of restoring the Amun god to power, & was buried in the Valley of the Kings, & Tutankhamun, given that he was her half-brother, was interred near her because of his sudden death & the priests needing a convenient, appropriate location for his tomb.

Very interesting possibility.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would again point out that an Egyptian king of the New Kingdom in general in official documents of the internal administration and foreign policy with his "nj-swt-bjt" or "throne name" occurs. This also applies to the Amarna period. Amenhotep IV / Akhenaten was from his 1st up to his 17th year of reign "Nefer-kheperu-Ra" (in most cases with the epithet "Wa en Ra" inside the cartouche).

This name is unique and identifies the king clearly. I know of only one case in 3000 years in which a king changed this name: at the end of the 19th Dynasty, Siptah (he changed also the four other names, probably due to infighting and throne-turmoil, which ultimately led to the change of dynasty).

Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard that there is some document referring to Nefertiti as being alive late into Akhenaten's reign, so that would seem to show that she could very well be the King Neferneferuaten who reigned before Tutankhamun. If this is proven to be correct, it would at least show that Nefertiti lived longer than previously thought.

I am trying to step back and look at this from a broader perspective, and examine the possible scenarios for KV62 from the perspective of what was going on at the time, and what little we do know.

To me, it would seem that if the hidden chambers in KV62 are actually a large tomb complex, of which Tutankhamun's tomb is merely an antechamber, then whoever it is must certainly be a king. And thus, the King Neferneferuaten. It seems Neferneferuaten reigned briefly before Tutankhamun, and must be connected to him in some way meaningful enough and also conveniently practical for the priests to bury Tutankhamun in one of the antechambers of the larger tomb.

It would seem that if the hidden chambers are in fact a larger tomb, that it pre-dates Tutankhamun's death by a few years, since seems to have been intact since Tutankhamun's burial. It seems we can likely rule out Ay & Ankhesenamun, since they survived Tutankhamun.

Kiya is a possibility, given she may have been Tut's mother, but it's certain that she was not Neferneferuaten. And Kiya was simply a lesser wife of Akhenaten, and if she died in Amarna, seems unlikely she would have been moved to Thebes. I guess it's possible, but just doesn't sit right with me.

So we are left with four likely candidates, Nefertiti, Meritaten, Smenkhare (whoever that is), & Neferneferuaten Tasherit. I think we have to look carefully at what we know of those people, and tie it in to the circumstances of the time, of the chaotic crumbling of the Amarna period and just before Tutankhamun's death, the country was still in a very chaotic, tenuous state.

I am assuming that whoever King Neferneferuaten was could be the key to the mystery.

I want to believe it could be Nefertiti, if she was Tut's mother, I would say it would be more likely.

I am leaning more towards it being Meritaten or Neferneferuaten Tasherit at this point.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
I've heard that there is some document referring to Nefertiti as being alive late into Akhenaten's reign, ...

"Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna -> Nefertiti Documented in Year 16 of Akhenaton"

Alex wrote:
... Smenkhare (whoever that is) ...

Some years ago I had the great pleasure to hear a lection in Luxor, held by Lyla Pinch-Brock. She was wholly responsible for excavating and conserving the tomb TT 120 - Anen (Second prophet of Amun, brother of Queen Teje, the mother of Amenhotep IV / Akhenaten.). She also re-excavated, cleared and conserved KV 55 in the VoK from 1992 - 1996. The lecture in the Mummification Museum in Luxor was about her work in KV 55. Without exaggerating I may say that she is one of the best-informed people when it comes to this tomb. She has all the known resources and documents for this tomb in the course of her work seen and studied.

After the lection she replied to a question from the audience, who might have been Semenchkara in her opinion: "This is just another name of Nefertiti." ...

Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Nefertiti was indeed proven to be alive in Akhenaten's last years, then it's very possible maybe even probable that she was Neferneferuaten. Of course, I am assuming that Neferneferuaten is the likeliest candidate for a hidden tomb inside KV62, that's the theory I am going on.

If Ms. Brock is correct, & Nefertiti used the name Smenkhare, then how does that square with the king Neferneferuaten? Would both have been names used by Nefertiti if she did reign as Pharaoh? Or maybe, Nefertiti was Smenkhare, & Neferneferuaten Tasherit was Neferneferuaten. So many unknowns, & so many possibilities.

Also, I keep running over this..who was Tutankhamun's mother? I just have this strong feeling that whoever is in the hidden chamber of KV62 if it is a tomb is strongly connected to Tutankhamun. Zahi Hawass has said he thinks if someone is there it is Kiya, because he thinks the Amarna princesses or Nefertiti would have never been in the Valley of the Kings due to their being to strongly tied to the Atenism in Amarna. Mamdouh el-Damaty also thinks it may be Kiya.

But I just can't get past all the references to the Pharaoh Neferneferuaten and how closely linked she seems to be to Tutankhamun. And obviously Kiya would not be Neferneferuaten, so I just am not sure.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
If Nefertiti was indeed proven to be alive in Akhenaten's last years, then it's very possible maybe even probable that she was Neferneferuaten. Of course, I am assuming that Neferneferuaten is the likeliest candidate for a hidden tomb inside KV62, that's the theory I am going on.

If Ms. Brock is correct, & Nefertiti used the name Smenkhare, then how does that square with the king Neferneferuaten? Would both have been names used by Nefertiti if she did reign as Pharaoh? Or maybe, Nefertiti was Smenkhare, & Neferneferuaten Tasherit was Neferneferuaten. So many unknowns, & so many possibilities.

Also, I keep running over this..who was Tutankhamun's mother? I just have this strong feeling that whoever is in the hidden chamber of KV62 if it is a tomb is strongly connected to Tutankhamun. Zahi Hawass has said he thinks if someone is there it is Kiya, because he thinks the Amarna princesses or Nefertiti would have never been in the Valley of the Kings due to their being to strongly tied to the Atenism in Amarna. Mamdouh el-Damaty also thinks it may be Kiya.

But I just can't get past all the references to the Pharaoh Neferneferuaten and how closely linked she seems to be to Tutankhamun. And obviously Kiya would not be Neferneferuaten, so I just am not sure.


For one, you are ignoring the DNA study of 2010 (Hawass, Gad, et al. 2010). In that study, it was established that the Younger Lady (YL) of KV 35 was Tutankhamun's mother and that female was also a sibling of KV 55, a royal male, who was established as Tutankhamun's father. Both were offspring of Amenhotep III and Tiye, which means that KV 55 and YL of KV 35 were most likely brother and sister.

Now, for the rub: The KV 55 male is young, no more than 23 years at death (Smith 1912; Derry 1931, Harrison 1966, and Filer 2000); this tends to rule him out as Akhenaten, since Akhenaten served a 17 year reign and fathered daughters between Years -2 and Year 10. As Allen (1994) points out, as long as you have the KV 55 remains as they are, you cannot rule out an independent male king named Smenkhkare (pace Lyla Brock).

I personally have doubts of a finished chamber or additional remains: most Egyptologists tend to think that if a "chamber" of sorts exists it may contain additional ritual and funereal goods and equipment. It has been noted elsewhere that certain ritual objects which should have been in Tutankhamun's tomb were missing, as well as shabti, etc. I do think we should not discount this is a distinct possibility, should a chamber be present.

There is disagreement whether the imaging is also seeing actual chamber space, but perhaps merely rocks heated via fissures, which may give the impression of voids in the wall imaging. While talking about the so-called "anomalies" at Giza, Dr. Kate Spence of Cambridge does make some points which also would be relevant to KV 62.

Reference:

Allen, J. P. 1994. Nefertiti and Smenkh-ka-re. Göttinger Miszellen 141: 7-17.

Derry, D. E. 1931. Notes on the Skeleton hitherto believed to be that of King Akhenaten. ASAE 31: 115-9.

Filer, J. 2000. The KV 55 body: the facts. Egyptian Archaeology 17/Autumn: 13-4.

Harrison, R. G.1966. An Anatomical Examination of the Pharaonic Remains Purported to be Akhenaten. JEA 52: 95-119.

Hawass, Z., et al.2010. Ancestry and Pathology in King Tutankhamun’s Family. Journal of the American medical Association 303/7: 638-47.

Hawass, Z., et al.2010. Ancestry and Pathology in King Tutankhamun’s Family. (eSupplement). Journal of the American medical Association 303/7: 1-12.

Smith, G. E. 2000 (1912). Catalogue Général de Antiquités Égyptiennes du Musée du Caire. No. 60151-61100. The Royal Mummies. Service des Antiquités de L'Égypte: Catalogue Général de Antiquités Égyptiennes du Musée du Caire. London: Duckworth.

HTH.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neseret wrote:
... most Egyptologists tend to think that if a "chamber" of sorts exists it may contain additional ritual and funereal goods and equipment. ...

This is probably to assume for the supposed space behind the west wall. Since KV 35 - Amenhotep II the burial chamber of a king has 4 (and more) side chambers. In KV 62 there are in the eastern chamber (the so called treasury) the objects connectet with the rebirth together with the sun god in the morning. So, in a possible west chamber we could found objects connected with the journey thrue the night. See the objects listed by Campbell Price.

By the way, KV 35 is, if I remember correctly, also the earliest evidence of co-burial for close family members inside the tomb of the king.

Even if one would now accept that the wall was only closed for the attachment of the mural (contrary to any known procedure in this regard), the question remains, why then a separate real connecting door was set into this wall (Reeves, 2015, p. 8: "a second partition wall with internal doorway")?

I find it also interesting what names in the thrown together tomb treasure of KV 62 are entirely absent or only one time emerge: Semenchkara and Nefertiti (as Great Royal Wife).

I would say, there is to assume that tomb goods were made for Nefertiti as Great Royal Wife of Akhenaten. In the royal tomb in Amarna no leftovers were found. Known is only one possible shabti, reconstructed from two fragments, now in two museums. Origin unknown, from the art dealing of the 19th century in Cairo.

Greetings, Lutz.
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Alex
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the mysterious chambers behind KV62, I have no idea what we'll find there, but I am hoping it is a tomb, and a pharonic one, and that it is reasonably intact. I suppose it could be another chamber of Tutankhamun's tomb, with more caches relating to him, which would be very exciting too, or it could be Kiya, his probable mother's tomb.

I'd say the odds are 50/50 of it being either a cache, or a tomb of either Kiya or Neferneferuaten. Reeves claims that if it is Neferneferaten, who he claims was Nefertiti, then it could either be a simple burial, without pharonic honors, or perhaps, if she had renounced the problems & chaos that Akhenaten's reign had brought, maybe she had sufficiently redeemed herself so as to warrant a full, pharonic burial in KV62, the now-hidden chambers.

Reeves also argues that Tutankhamun's mask was meant for Neferneferuaten, but used for him. If Neferneferuaten died as king, then did she get another mask & discard the one used for Tutankhamun? Why would it have been recycled, unless of course Neferneferuaten maybe did not receive full pharonic burial honors.

Also, Reeves assumes that Neferneferuaten was Nefertiti. I hope this is the case, but it very well could have been Neferneferuaten Tasherit.

Lastly, although it seems possible that Neferneferuaten may have been interred in KV62, isn't it also just as possible that it could be someone else entirely? Just because there were vague references to Neferneferuaten on Tutankhamun's mask does not mean that is the person who would be in KV62.

How about Smenkhare, or even Meritaten? It seems to me that we are down to 5 possibilities:

1. Nefertiti
2. Neferneferuaten Tasherit
3. Meritaten
4. Smenkhare
5. Kiya

But I am not sure in which order the most likely candidate may be if there is in fact a tomb.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And what about the intriguing, however remote possibility, that the sun-king himself, Akhenaten, against all possible logic, might in fact be interred in KV62?

This would seem highly unlikely given the KV55 skeletal remains, but there are discrepancies with those remains as have been pointed out. Probably a very remote possibility, as he was probably interred at Amarna initially, but maybe Tutankhamun eventually had him moved to KV62 while Tutankhamun was still alive, with full, if discrete, pharonic burial honors. Pure speculation on my part, and probably a very unlikely possibility, but I can't help wondering it.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:32 am    Post subject: Akhenaten in KV62 Reply with quote

It would be highly interesting if Akhenaten (possibly with Nefertiti and some of their daughters) would be discovered behind Tutankhamun's burial chamber.
But even if the space does not contain a mummy it could still hold objects that might give us a better understanding of the family relations and succession at the end of the Amarna period.
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