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Ay and Nefertiti
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Jim Stinehart
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:53 pm    Post subject: Ay and Nefertiti Reply with quote

Speaking of Yuya, we should ask whether Yuya was a Hurrian.

Akhenaten’s maternal grandfather Yuya is often thought to be a Hurrian from northern Syria:

“Yuya held the military offices of Master of Horse and Lieutenant of the King for Chariotry. …It has long been suspected that Yuya was of a foreign – perhaps north Syrian – extraction, partly on the basis of the fluid orthography of his name, his unusual physiognomy (as revealed by his mummy), and the fact that the heartland of horse lore was in that region. …Kozloff 2012a: 102–104 [Arielle P. Kozloff, "Amenhotep III: Egypt's Radiant Pharaoh", Cambridge University Press] proposes Yuya to have been a Mitannian and closely linked to that state's royal house….” Aidan Dodson, "Amarna Sunrise: Egypt from Golden Age to Age of Heresy", American University in Cairo Press (2014), pp. 50, 1992.

As to a Hurrian etymology of the name “Yuya”, the Hurrian root would be i-u or iw, and -ya or -ia would be the classic Hurrian theophoric suffix. I-ú -ki and I-ú -uz-zi are attested Hurrian names at the Hurrian/Mitannian province of Nuzi. A different suffix would result in: I-ú -ia, which sounds like “Yuya”.
Gelb and Purves in "Nuzi Personal Names" see I-ú- as likely being a slight variant of I-wi- or I-wa-. Cf. the attested woman’s name I-wi -ia. Gelb and Purves specifically state that iw is Hurrian.

The Hurrian meaning of iw is unknown, but iw may be short for iw-ri, meaning “lord”. If so, then the name “Yuya” : I-ú-ia : I-wi-ia would mean: “God [is] lord”, implying for a Hurrian name, “Teshup [is] lord”.

In trying to figure out the intimate Hurrian connections at Amarna (where Nefertiti looks like an exotic foreign beauty who may be Hurrian by blood, and Nefertiti was the first woman in Egypt to drive a horse-drawn chariot by herself, Hurrian-style), the starting point is Akhenaten’s maternal grandfather Yuya. Yuya was a Hurrian from Hurrianland (northern Syria), whose titles, appropriate for a Hurrian who had come to Egypt to upgrade the Egyptian army’s skills with horses and chariots, were Master of Horse and Lieutenant of the King for Chariotry.

No, one would not have expected intimate Hurrian connections at Amarna. But they’re there, in spades.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...or "Yuya"/"Yuaa" could me a pet name given by the child king Amenhotep to his tutor, meaning "come here" or "come, come" (Yuyu), maybe reproducing Amenhotep's summoning for the old man's approach to provide good advice and instructions to the inexperienced monarch.

He could have a more conventional Egyptian name, even if he was of foreign origin, but a name made of a word issued to respond to the king's very needs could be more appropriate for help to consolidate his position in court, as an indispensable royal asset.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Ay and Nefertiti Reply with quote

Jim Stinehart wrote:
... we should ask whether Yuya was a Hurrian. ...

Why should "we"? Only because of ...

Jim Stinehart wrote:
... often thought to be ... suspected that ... perhaps ... Idea

I would say at least since Thutmose III Egypt probably do not needs tuition teaching in building and using chariots. And also your "name-game" a la "it-probably-sounds-so-similar" is in my view not really linguistically founded and so certain untenable (and not new).

And, not to forget, the name "Juja" is an Ur-Egyptian one, known from documents since the Old Kingdom. See for that ... Hermann Ranke : Die Ägyptischen Personennamen - Band I (Glückstadt : Verl. J.J.Augustin, 1935), p. 55, no. 16 ff. (for the OK no. 17):



Jim Stinehart wrote:
... No, one would not have expected intimate Hurrian connections at Amarna. But they’re there, in spades.

Of course not, why should someone... No support, neither in the clay tablet archives from Amarna nor in the Hurrian and also not in others of that time.

Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:07 am    Post subject: Ay and Nefertiti Reply with quote

Lutz:

Why do you deny the palpable Hurrian influence at Amarna and in the reign of Amenhotep III? Please consider the following objective facts:

1. Relatively early in his reign, Amenhotep III received a top-of-the-line Hurrian princess bride, Gilukhipa, along with her 317 serving girls. (That’s a total of 318 Hurrian women from the Hurrian state of Mitanni, with 318 being a quintessential Hurrian number.)

2. Years later, Amenhotep III ordered up a second top-of-the-line Hurrian princess bride, but as we know from the Amarna Letters, that turned out to be a royal mess par excellence. The solid gold statues that Amenhotep III had promised to Hurrian king Tushratta as a key element of the huge promised bride’s-price were never delivered by Akhenaten. Tushratta’s incredibly rude reaming out of Akhenaten in a series of Amarna Letters led to Akhenaten permanently cutting off all relations with the country that had been Egypt’s greatest ally in the days of Akhenaten’s father Amenhotep III: the Hurrian great power state of Mitanni in eastern Syria.

3. Many Egyptologists consider Yuya to be a Hurrian (though sometimes they simply say that Yuya was a foreigner from northern Syria, but that’s basically the same thing in this time period):

(i) Arielle P. Kozloff, “Amenhotep III: Egypt's Radiant Pharaoh”, Cambridge University Press (2012), pp. 102-104. At p. 102: “Yuya’s mummy…has aquiline features with a prominent, hooked nose similar to the profiles of eastern foreigners painted on tomb walls in Dynasty 18 and dissimilar from traditional Egyptian faces.”

(ii) Aidan Dodson, “Amarna Sunrise: Egypt from Golden Age to Age of Heresy”, American University in Cairo Press (2014), pp. 50: “Yuya held the military offices of Master of Horse and Lieutenant of the King for Chariotry. …It has long been suspected that Yuya was of a foreign – perhaps north Syrian – extraction, partly on the basis of the fluid orthography of his name, his unusual physiognomy (as revealed by his mummy), and the fact that the heartland of horse lore was in that region.”

(iii) Margaret Bunson, “Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt” (2014), p. 436: “Yuya was the Master of Horse for the royal cavalry, a general officer of chariot units. He…came from the Hurrian region of modern Syria.”

(iv) J.H. Breasted: “Yuaa [had]…a great hooked nose like that of a Syrian….” “Religion and Empire in Ancient Egypt”, in “The Quarterly Review, Volume 210 (1909), p. 53.

(v) Arthur Weigall, “The Life and Times of Akhenaten” (1910).

(vi) Anthony David & Rosalie David, “A Biographical Dictionary of Ancient Egypt” (1992), p. 167.

(vii) Barbara Mertz, “Red Land, Black Land: Daily Life in Ancient Egypt” (2011), p. 16.

(viii) Joyce Tyldesley, “Nefertiti” (1998), pp. 21-22: “Yuya’s name seems to have caused more problems than most, and this has led to suggestions that Yuya may have been an Asiatic with an unfamiliar foreign name. …Yuya has been interpreted as having an unusual, almost European, physiognomy, [while by contrast, his wife] Thuyu is generally regarded as a typical Egyptian woman.”

4. Please see my prior post for my Hurrian linguistic analysis of the name “Yuya”, which I see as being the Hurrian name I-ú -ia.

5. In the Amarna Age, the finest horses came from the Hurrian state of Mitanni, and the Hurrians had the greatest chariotry skills. As I noted previously, it was probably the Hurrians who introduced “the light horse-drawn chariot with spoked wheels, the training of horses to draw it, its use as a platform for firing the composite bow, and the development of scale-armour for men and horses to counter it.” “The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Archaeology”, Andrew Sherratt (ed.), Cambridge University Press (1980), p. 126.

Given such Hurrian manifest expertise regarding horse-drawn chariots, consider now Yuya’s two most prominent titles: Master of Horse, and Lieutenant of the King for Chariotry.

* * *

Honestly, to me the objective evidence seems overwhelming that Yuya was a Hurrian from northern Syria.

Lutz, on what basis do you deny that Yuya was a Hurrian?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Ay and Nefertiti Reply with quote

Jim Stinehart wrote:
Lutz: Why do you deny the palpable Hurrian influence at Amarna and in the reign of Amenhotep III? ...

Simply because I am sure that I am in line to the archaeological and linguistic research? Cool

Your assumptions are not only archaeologically not to prove, they also are based obviously even on false- or mis-information. For example...

Jim Stinehart wrote:
... Please consider the following objective facts:

1. Relatively early in his reign, Amenhotep III received a top-of-the-line Hurrian princess bride, Gilukhipa, along with her 317 serving girls. (That’s a total of 318 Hurrian women from the Hurrian state of Mitanni, with 318 being a quintessential Hurrian number.)...

Mitanni and the Hurrian Empire were at the time of Amenhotep III two different independent states. Mitanni was a confederate state of Egypt and belonged to the Egyptian influential landscape. It is totally wrong to identify it with the Hurrian Empire at that time. The princesses from Mitanni who came as brides to Amenhotep III. had nothing to do with the royal house of Hatti.

The Hurrian (in German : Hethiter) Empire was the main enemy of Egypt short before, during and after Amarna. That is also the reason why the letter from a queen of Egypt from the end of the Amarna period, with the offer to marry a Hittite prince and make him king in Egypt, is so exceptional and surprising...

This only ended with the peace agreement under Ramses II and the wedding of a true princess from the royal house of Hatti with pharao.

And again ...

At least since Thutmose III Egypt probably do not needs tuition teaching in building and using chariots. And also your "name-game" a la "it-probably-sounds-so-similar" is in my view not really linguistically founded and so certain untenable (and not new).

And, not to forget, the name "Juja" is an Ur-Egyptian one, known from documents since the Old Kingdom. See for that ... Hermann Ranke : Die Ägyptischen Personennamen - Band I (Glückstadt : Verl. J.J.Augustin, 1935), p. 55, no. 16 ff. (for the OK no. 17).

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgotten...

If you presume that leading officials and even members of the Egyptian royal house had a Mitanni-lineage (without archaeological or textual evidence), how do you explain the failure to observe the Mittani-help-callings in the reign of Akhenaten?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:09 pm    Post subject: Ay and Nefertiti Reply with quote

Lutz:

1. You wrote: “Mitanni and the Hurrian Empire were at the time of Amenhotep III two different independent states. Mitanni was a confederate state of Egypt and belonged to the Egyptian influential landscape. It is totally wrong to identify it with the Hurrian Empire at that time. The princesses from Mitanni who came as brides to Amenhotep III. had nothing to do with the royal house of Hatti. The Hurrian (in German : Hethiter) Empire was the main enemy of Egypt short before, during and after Amarna.”

You are mixing up the Hittite Empire [“(in German: Hethiter)”], centered in eastern Anatolia (modern Turkey, north of Syria), and the Hurrian Empire of Mitanni, centered in eastern Syria. Throughout Amenhotep III’s reign, the Hurrian great power state of Mitanni in eastern Syria was Egypt’s best ally. When scholars say that Yuya was from “northern Syria”, that means that Yuya was either from Mitanni proper, or from one of the small Hurrian states in north-central Syria that were allied with the Hurrian state of Mitanni; in either case, that means that Yuya was a Hurrian. (Yuya certainly was not a Hittite.)

The following assertion of yours is correct: “The princesses from Mitanni who came as brides to Amenhotep III. had nothing to do with the royal house of Hatti.” That’s because they were Hurrian princesses from Mitanni in eastern Syria (closely allied with Egypt at the time), not Hittite princesses from Anatolia : Hatti (an enemy of Egypt in the time of Amenhotep III and Akhenaten). The Hurrians of Mitanni and the Hittites of Hatti were two totally different people.

One cost to Egypt of maintaining this important alliance with the Hurrian state of Mitanni was that on two occasions, Amenhotep III promised to pay a gargantuan bride’s-price to Mitanni for sending a top-of-the-line Hurrian princess bride to Egypt. In the first case, when the Hurrian princess-bride (Gilukhipa) came to Egypt accompanied by 317 serving girls, a huge bride’s-price was in fact paid to the Hurrian state of Mitanni by Egypt.

2. You wrote: “If you presume that leading officials and even members of the Egyptian royal house had a Mitanni-lineage…, how do you explain the failure to observe the Mittani-help-callings in the reign of Akhenaten?”

That is directly related to the second Hurrian princess bride referenced briefly in #1 above. Here is how I explained this key issue in my prior post: “Years later, Amenhotep III ordered up a second top-of-the-line Hurrian princess bride, but as we know from the Amarna Letters, that turned out to be a royal mess par excellence. The solid gold statues that Amenhotep III had promised to Hurrian king Tushratta as a key element of the huge promised bride’s-price were never delivered by Akhenaten. Tushratta’s incredibly rude reaming out of Akhenaten in a series of Amarna Letters led to Akhenaten permanently cutting off all relations with the country that had been Egypt’s greatest ally in the days of Akhenaten’s father Amenhotep III: the Hurrian great power state of Mitanni in eastern Syria.”

3. Please note that Amarna Letter EA 24, from Tushratta as the Hurrian king of Mitanni, is written in the Hurrian language. The beginning of this letter reads in part: “Thus speaks Tušratta, the king of the land of Mitanni.” The closing of this letter reads in part: “Tušratta is the Hurrian king….” So we see that the king of the Hurrian state of Mitanni in eastern Syria was a Hurrian, and he sent to Amenhotep III a second Hurrian princess bride. Akhenaten ended up having to deal with this matter when his father, Amenhotep III, was on his deathbed and could not consummate the planned marriage.

4. Prior to Akhenaten’s dramatic break with the Hurrian state of Mitanni, Egypt’s best ally had been the Hurrian state of Mitanni. The connections of the Hurrians to the family of the first historical monotheists at Amarna are truly intimate. Akhenaten’s mother, Queen Tiye, was of Hurrian ancestry, because Queen Tiye’s father was a Hurrian from northern Syria with a Hurrian name: Yuya. More controversially, we can ask in a subsequent post if Akhenaten’s wife, Queen Nefertiti, was Hurrian by blood. There has to be some reason why opportunistic Ay had been willing to take in as a suckling infant a baby with an extremely elongated skull -- Nefertiti.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:22 am    Post subject: Re: Ay and Nefertiti Reply with quote

Jim Stinehart wrote:
You are mixing up the Hittite Empire [“(in German: Hethiter)”], centered in eastern Anatolia (modern Turkey, north of Syria), and the Hurrian Empire of Mitanni, centered in eastern Syria. ...

That I have Hurrian and Hittite confused was due in part to a fault of the online translation but in grater part on your formulation the "Hurrian Empire of Mitanni", the designation of the Kingdom of Mitanni collectively as Hurritic.

Mitanni describing / calling this way is as somewhat like the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland only to name Wales, and to designate all its residents as Welsh. The Hurrian influence in state and culture was just one part among others (as in other states close this time and location, even with the Hittites), and with security not the dominant one. Significant sign: the kings of Mitanni had no Hurrian throne names. Also the name "Tushratta" is non-Hurrian.

Jim Stinehart wrote:
... That’s because they were Hurrian princesses from Mitanni in eastern Syria (closely allied with Egypt at the time), not Hittite princesses from Anatolia : Hatti (an enemy of Egypt in the time of Amenhotep III and Akhenaten). The Hurrians of Mitanni and the Hittites of Hatti were two totally different people. ...

As already said, Hurrian influence in these states can be seen but not yet Mitanni or Hatti therefore can be called a Hurrian state, and a Mitanni princess can not be "fixed price" called Hurrian princess... This ultimately leads only to confusion.

Jim Stinehart wrote:
... 2. You wrote: “If you presume that leading officials and even members of the Egyptian royal house had a Mitanni-lineage…, how do you explain the failure to observe the Mittani-help-callings in the reign of Akhenaten?”

That is directly related to the second Hurrian princess bride referenced briefly in #1 above. Here is how I explained this key issue in my prior post: “Years later, Amenhotep III ordered up a second top-of-the-line Hurrian princess bride, but as we know from the Amarna Letters, that turned out to be a royal mess par excellence. The solid gold statues that Amenhotep III had promised to Hurrian king Tushratta as a key element of the huge promised bride’s-price were never delivered by Akhenaten. Tushratta’s incredibly rude reaming out of Akhenaten in a series of Amarna Letters led to Akhenaten permanently cutting off all relations with the country that had been Egypt’s greatest ally in the days of Akhenaten’s father Amenhotep III: the Hurrian great power state of Mitanni in eastern Syria.”

And the Mittanic infiltrated royal house of Egypt, besides high officials in state and religion bureaucracy with Mittanic lineage, looked passively as Akhenaten Mitanni, one of Egypts protective shields against the Hittite threat, the downfall surrendered because of a couple, in your view, rude worded letters? Sounds to me not really convincing, is purely speculative and can not be confirmed by archeology (or common sense).

Jim Stinehart wrote:
...3. Please note that Amarna Letter EA 24, from Tushratta as the Hurrian king of Mitanni, is written in the Hurrian language....

I will have a look for this letter in the next days in the Berlin State Library in :

Anson F. Rainey : The El-Amarna Correspondence - A New Edition of the Cuneiform Letters from the Site of El-Amarna based on Collations of all Extant Tablets (Leiden / Boston : Brill, 2015)

Then I can comment on that. Ultimately, it is for this discussion irrelevant whether Hurritic or Mittanic. A non-Egyptian lineage of high Egyptian officials or members of the royal house is simply not to prove by archaeological evidence, and is for that reason, in my view, to be regarded as purely speculative.

Jim Stinehart wrote:
4. Prior to Akhenaten’s dramatic break with the Hurrian state of Mitanni, Egypt’s best ally had been the Hurrian state of Mitanni. The connections of the Hurrians to the family of the first historical monotheists at Amarna are truly intimate. Akhenaten’s mother, Queen Tiye, was of Hurrian ancestry, because Queen Tiye’s father was a Hurrian from northern Syria with a Hurrian name: Yuya. More controversially, we can ask in a subsequent post if Akhenaten’s wife, Queen Nefertiti, was Hurrian by blood. There has to be some reason why opportunistic Ay had been willing to take in as a suckling infant a baby with an extremely elongated skull -- Nefertiti.

Again, all speculative presumtions, without an archeological base.

And you also still did not respond on ...

At least since Thutmose III Egypt probably do not needs tuition teaching in building and using chariots. And also your "name-game" a la "it-probably-sounds-so-similar" is in my view not really linguistically founded and so certain untenable (and not new).

And, not to forget, the name "Juja" is an Ur-Egyptian one, known from documents since the Old Kingdom. See for that ... Hermann Ranke : Die Ägyptischen Personennamen - Band I (Glückstadt : Verl. J.J.Augustin, 1935), p. 55, no. 16 ff. (for the OK no. 17).

Lutz
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EA 24 is actually written in Hurrian. Why this 1 of 11 known letters from Tushratta to Amenhotep III & IV was (as the only one) not written in Akkadien, remains unknown. Also seems to me the translation far from assured, following ...

Gernot Wilhelm : Der Brief Tušrattas von Mittani an Amenophis III. in hurritischer Sprache (EA 24). - In: TUAT NF 3. - 2006 - pp. 180 - 190, on page 181:



But as I said, ultimately plays that (label Mitanni or Hurrian), in my view, no role for the question, whether Juja, Teje and Nefertiti were from Egyptian descent.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: Nefertiti Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
Thieuke wrote:
... Aanen who as Tiye's brother is supposed to have had several children. It is perfectly possible for him to have married his first cousin (daughter of his mother's sister) and for them to be the parents of Nefertiti and possibly Mutbenret. Aye can be part of the Akhmin-clan without having to be a son Thuya and Yuya.

I would like to recall again in this connection, to a very special writing in the names of both, Aanen and Nefertiti, elsewhere not been established: The first glyph in his name is reversed to face the other two signs, an anomaly also found in Nefertiti's cartouche...

Greetings, Lutz.


Lutz, do you have a picture of Aanen's glyph?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:10 pm    Post subject: Ay and Nefertiti Reply with quote

Lutz:

1. You wrote: “[T]he name ‘Tushratta’ is non-Hurrian.”

That’s true. “Tushratta” is a Sanskrit-based name. The Hurrian kings of the Hurrian great power state of Mitanni often had Sanskrit-based names. But remember the closing of Amarna Letter EA 24 that Tushratta wrote in Hurrian: “Tušratta is the Hurrian king….”

Besides, Yuya was not a king of Mitanni. Rather, like most nobles in Mitanni or elsewhere in northern Syria at this time, Yuya was a Hurrian with a Hurrian name: I-ú -ia.

2. You wrote: “[A] Mitanni princess can not be ‘fixed price" called Hurrian princess... This ultimately leads only to confusion.”

Be that as it may, neither Queen Tiye nor Queen Nefertiti was a Mitanni princess or a Hurrian princess anyway. Rather, (a) Queen Tiye was the daughter of a Hurrian nobleman charioteer from northern Syria, Yuya, and (b) Queen Nefertiti had unknown Hurrian biological parents, an extremely elongated skull, and charioteer skills better than most men in Egypt. What we’re trying to determine on this thread is whether (i) Akhenaten’s mother was of Hurrian ancestry, and (ii) Akhenaten’s wife was also of Hurrian ancestry. That’s the early monotheistic way.

3. You wrote: “And the Mittanic infiltrated royal house of Egypt, besides high officials in state and religion bureaucracy with Mittanic lineage, looked passively as Akhenaten Mitanni, one of Egypts protective shields against the Hittite threat, the downfall surrendered because of a couple, in your view, rude worded letters?”

Not. Don’t you know what happened in Year 13 at Amarna? Akhenaten suddenly cut off all relations with the Hurrian great power state of Mitanni, which had been Egypt’s best ally in the days of Akhenaten’s father. Then all heck broke loose at Amarna; the good days were over for good. All of the nobles’ tombs that had been begun prior to Year 13 at Amarna were abruptly halted. After Year 13, work was only done on a few nobles’ tombs at Amarna, and these were for different officials. There must have been a terrible purge in Year 13. Akhenaten must have caught wind of several of his top officers whispering that Akhenaten should not have cut off relations with Egypt’s valuable ally Mitanni. Those “treasonous” officers might have used the very words you did: “the downfall surrendered because of a couple…rude worded letters?”

That’s the way it went down at Amarna in Year 13. The glorious days of Year 12 were suddenly an ancient memory; life was difficult at Amarna after Year 12. Egypt never did re-establish relations with the Hurrian great power state of Mitanni, by the way. Nefertiti (of Hurrian ancestry) virtually disappears from view after Year 12, though she’s still alive and still has the title of Queen. That is to say, despite the intimate Hurrian influence at Amarna through Year 12, it all came to a crashing halt in Year 13, never to be revived. Year 13 was an important year for the world. That’s when the hitherto pervasive Hurrian influence at Amarna disappeared entirely, overnight, without a trace.

4. You wrote: “A non-Egyptian lineage of high Egyptian officials or members of the royal house is simply not to prove by archaeological evidence, and is for that reason, in my view, to be regarded as purely speculative.”

It’s only one high Egyptian official: Yuya. He was a Hurrian charioteer par excellence, who was brought to Egypt to upgrade Egypt’s mediocre charioteering skills. In that day, the Hurrian maryannu charioteers were world-famous for being the best charioteer fighting men in the world. The “archeological” evidence you mention consists of the many different spellings that are attested, archeologically, for the name “Yuya”. Who knew how to spell this Hurrian name in Egyptian hieroglyphs? And why don’t you consider the facial features on Yuya’s very well-preserved mummy to be legitimate evidence of his Hurrian heritage? Plus all the other factors I have catalogued on this thread.

5. You wrote: “At least since Thutmose III Egypt probably do not needs tuition teaching in building and using chariots.”

Not so. True, Tuthmose III may have had a thousand chariots. But Egyptian charioteer skills were mediocre at best. Egyptian archers were feared and universally admired. But the Egyptian army didn’t use chariots as fighting vehicles per se, but rather mainly as a convenient way to rush Egyptian archers to the front lines.

In the Amarna Letters, princelings in Canaan routinely beg Akhenaten to send out some Egyptian archers, but never ask for Egyptian charioteers. If you wanted charioteers, then Hurrian princelings or maryannu is what you would be looking for, not Egyptians.

For example, when the newly-installed Amorite-Hurrian princeling ruler of the Ayalon Valley in Canaan, Yapaḫu, desperately needs Egyptian military assistance, here is what he asks Akhenaten for at Amarna Letter EA 300: “May he [Akhenaten] send his archers.” No one in the Amarna Letters ever asks Akhenaten to send out Egyptian charioteers.

It’s the same story for the Hurrian princeling ruler of Jerusalem, IR-Heba, who at Amarna Letter EA 285: 53-60 predictably begs Akhenaten as follows: “May the king [Akhenaten] turn his attention to the archers so that archers of the king, my lord, come forth.”

As I was saying, Egyptian archers were greatly coveted, but nobody cared a hoot about Egyptian charioteers. The best charioteers during the Amarna Age were Hurrian maryannu.

When you’re talking chariots in the Amarna Letters, you’re talking Hurrian charioteers (who either have Hurrian-based Hurrian names, or Sanskrit-based Hurrian names). Thus Shuwardata writes as follows concerning Surata and Endaruta at Amarna Letter EA 366: 20-28: “Surata, the ruler of Akka, and Endaruta, the ruler of Akšapa, these two also have come to my aid…with 50 chariots….”

The pattern is clear in the Amarna Letters: the Egyptians operate via archers, whereas Hurrian princelings, by contrast, operate via chariots.

Given Egypt’s mediocre charioteering skills, it’s really quite remarkable that Amarna features Akhenaten, and Nefertiti, and several of their daughters, driving their own chariots up and down the main thoroughfare in Amarna. If that doesn’t show Hurrian influence, what would?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:53 am    Post subject: Re: Nefertiti Reply with quote

evarelap wrote:
Lutz, do you have a picture of Aanen's glyph?

I'm not Lutz faroah but i found the glyphs of Aanen's name!

(Museo Egizio Torino, 5484)



Source: projet rosette info, Statue de Âanen

Lutz:
The first glyph (M17) in Amenhotep II's cartouche is reversed to face the other signs!
(Hermann A. Schlögl, Nofretete: Die Wahrheit über die schöne Königin, Abb. 18 u. 19)

Aset
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Nefertiti Reply with quote

evarelap wrote:
Lutz wrote:
Thieuke wrote:
... Aanen who as Tiye's brother is supposed to have had several children. It is perfectly possible for him to have married his first cousin (daughter of his mother's sister) and for them to be the parents of Nefertiti and possibly Mutbenret. Aye can be part of the Akhmin-clan without having to be a son Thuya and Yuya.

I would like to recall again in this connection, to a very special writing in the names of both, Aanen and Nefertiti, elsewhere not been established: The first glyph in his name is reversed to face the other two signs, an anomaly also found in Nefertiti's cartouche...

Greetings, Lutz.

Lutz, do you have a picture of Aanen's glyph?

From Theodore M. Davis : The Tomb of Iouiya and Touiyou (1907, Reprint Duckworth 2000) on page 18, from the inscriptions on the sarcophagus of Tuja :



Edged in red is the name of Aanen, in green four times Gardiner Sign D54 in "correct" orientation. In Aanens name D54 is reversed. Inside the cartouche of Nefertiti Gardiner Sign M18 (rispe of the reed with legs, a combination made up from M17 & D54) shows the same anomaly.

Greetings, Lutz.
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Jim Stinehart
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:34 pm    Post subject: Ay and Nefertiti Reply with quote

Thieuke wrote:

“... Aanen who as Tiye's brother is supposed to have had several children. It is perfectly possible for him to have married his first cousin (daughter of his mother's sister) and for them to be the parents of Nefertiti and possibly Mutbenret. Aye can be part of the Akhmin-clan without having to be a son Thuya and Yuya.”

Hey, this is getting really exciting. Here is how I tentatively pull it all together.

1. Nefertiti’s birth mother was a female relative of Thuya (Queen Tiye’s mother), with Thuya being a native Egyptian. That seems to be required by DNA evidence. Note that on her maternal side, Nefertiti has no Hurrian blood (because it’s Yuya who was a Hurrian, and Thuya is only related to Yuya by marriage, not by blood).

2. Contra the old, unattested view, we no longer think that Ay was the biological father of Nefertiti, nor do we think that Ay was the biological son of Yuya and Thuya either. After all, Ay never claimed to be the biological father of Nefertiti, even though such an assertion would have helped him move up the ladder if true; and Ay is never claimed by Yuya or Thuya to be their son.

3. The biological father of Nefertiti is Aanen, who is the biological son of Yuya and Thuya (unlike Ay). I believe the DNA evidence works fine for Nefertiti’s biological father being a son of Yuya and Thuya, and Aanen was that, whereas Ay probably was not. (Perhaps helping this theory of Nefertiti’s paternity is the peculiarity of reversed glyphs that applies only to the hieroglyphic names of Aanen and Nefertiti.)

Please note that on this theory of the case, Nefertiti had an excellent bloodline, rather than Nefertiti coming out of nowhere as sometimes supposed.

4. Aanen had 4 daughters and a son, the last of whom may have been Nefertiti. It’s not hard to see Aanen’s wife, who no longer was a spring chicken, dying in childbirth as she gives birth to her 5th and last child. The decision was then made for infant Nefertiti to have as her nursemaid Tey, who was Ay’s wife (with Ay, on this theory of the case, not having an earlier wife).

It’s unclear to me who raised Nefertiti on this theory of the case. Although Tey was Nefertiti’s wet-nurse, perhaps Aanen raised Nefertiti once she stopped nursing, though perhaps Tey always kept in close touch with the baby she had nursed, so that Tey was the only mother Nefertiti had ever known (though Tey was not related to Nefertiti by blood or adoption). Ay, by the way, may never have had much of a fatherly feeling toward Nefertiti, who was not his blood daughter, and who may not even have been raised in his family after she stopped nursing. Ay only agreed to let his wife nurse baby Nefertiti in order to ingratiate himself at the court of Amenhotep III, by doing a favor to Queen Tiye’s brother Aanen.

5. Aanen himself was a priest of Amen (the god Akhenaten hated), and Aanen seems to have died about the time Akhenaten became pharaoh. Aanen may have completed most of his funeral arrangements before it became apparent that it might up his status to claim to be Nefertiti’s (biological) father. Aanen also did not approve of the new religion of Nefertiti’s husband. So it’s not particularly strange that Aanen does not claim to be Nefertiti’s father. (By contrast, Ay lived much longer than Aanen, and Ay had no religious problem with Akhenaten, so if Ay were indeed Nefertiti’s biological father, surely Ay would have made that claim.)

6. Gosh, everything seems to be coming together perfectly. And here’s the best part of all, from my point of view. Yuya was a Hurrian. So by patrilineal descent, Aanen was a Hurrian, and so was Nefertiti. Yes, three of Nefertiti’s four grandparents were likely native Egyptians, but by patrilineal descent, Nefertiti was a Hurrian. Being of Hurrian descent on her father’s side, Nefertiti, who was proud of her ethnic heritage, may have taken a great interest in horses and in driving horse-drawn chariots, which is so redolent of the Hurrian lifestyle.

7. My conclusions are as follows: (i) Akhenaten’s mother was a Hurrian (since Queen Tiye’s father was the Hurrian Yuya); and (ii) Akhenaten’s wife was also a Hurrian (since Nefertiti’s biological father was Aanen, whose own biological father was the Hurrian Yuya). Yes! That’s the early monotheistic way. Everything works out absolutely perfectly from my point of view.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Nefertiti Reply with quote

Aset wrote:
Lutz:
The first glyph (M17) in Amenhotep II's cartouche is reversed to face the other signs!
(Hermann A. Schlögl, Nofretete: Die Wahrheit über die schöne Königin, Abb. 18 u. 19)Aset

Thanks Aset! This I always forget again and again and fall into the same error in formulation in Lyla Pinch-Brock : Jewels in the Gebel - A Preliminary Report on the Tomb of Anen. - In: JARCE 36. - 1999. - pp. 71 - 85, on page 71:
Quote:
"... Little is known about Anen, also spelled Aanen, or Onen, and called Mahu in Gardiner and Weigall (fig. 1). The first glyph in his name is reversed to face the other two signs, an anomaly also found in Nefertiti's cartouche. ..."

Of course, the statement with the inverted first hieroglyph is about the writing in the birth name from the sa-ra-cartouche "Amenhotep" (III) at the top part of the astronomical device at the belt from the beautiful statue of Aanen in Turin.

Good that you mention / corrected it. Because it shows in my view clearly that this scription was not an exident. It was used from Aanen deliberately to show his special near / connectedness (cryptically hidden) to a certain person (Amenhotep III). I think it therefore urges the presumption that even Nefertiti tryed to use this cryptically hidden writing in the same way: to show her connection to Aanen?

Greetings, Lutz.
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