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Are the pyramids really tombs or are the experts wrong
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cladking wrote:
... The reality is the gods built the pyramids and total human effort is a fraction of what people think. ...

From Daniel Jackson in "Stargate"?

cladking wrote:
... These site were important long before the pyramids were built for industrial purposes. There were saw mills, canning sites, and laundries. Much of the infrastructure for building pyramids already existed at the sites so they merely moved the operations and converted to lifting stones to build pyramids. ...

I would like to see your documents for that!

The links to the dig reports from Dr. Mark Lehner and his team, with contrary statements / conclusions on the basis of decades of excavations especially in the workers' settlements in Giza, are here somewhere in the thread available...
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cladking wrote:
... I believe that the "primeval mound" was a naturally occurring source of water and had the ben ben on top through which it flowed. "Zep Tepi" was the theoretical "first eruption" of this water which defined the earth and sky giving birth to shu "upward" and tefnut "downward". ... bla bla bla

Your "believe" is not enough for most readers here in the forum. Again, please proves for your statements!
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Ikon
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^
Well, that is full-on fringe nonsense and yet another tiresome attack on Egyptology, which should not be allowed to stand on this forum.

I'll deal with just one specific point from your post. What were they canning, pilchards? bockwurst?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^
Of course that post was aimed at clading, Lutz being quicker on the draw to post responses before I hit "submit"
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cladking wrote:
http://www.siamcostumes.com/cutters_guides/pdf/the-ancient-egyptian-pyramid-texts-james-p-allen.pdf

I'm not sure what the discrepancy is here. ...

James P. Allen : The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts. - [2nd Edition]. - Atlanta : SBL Press, 2015. - XII, 381 p. - Page XI, Preface:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

From Daniel Jackson in "Stargate"?


No. This is what the Pyramid Texts say. This is what the cultural context says again and again. "Osiris tows the earth by means of balance". "Tefnut makes the earth high under the sky by means of her arms".

I believe them.

Quote:

I would like to see your documents for that!


It's all suggested in the PT, the historical record, and logic.

Quote:
The links to the dig reports from Dr. Mark Lehner and his team, with contrary statements / conclusions on the basis of decades of excavations especially in the workers' settlements in Giza, are here somewhere in the thread available...


And all the dig reports support my beliefs.

They recently found a cistern that can't be filled by rain. We either believe there was running water or that they preferred hauling it uphill and long distances from the warm muddy Nile.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cladking wrote:
Quote:

From Daniel Jackson in "Stargate"?

No. This is what the Pyramid Texts say. ...

Piece of evidence free, just your "believe" ... But we are not in a church here!

cladking wrote:
Lutz wrote:
I would like to see your documents for that!

Lutz wrote:
The links to the dig reports from Dr. Mark Lehner and his team, with contrary statements / conclusions on the basis of decades of excavations especially in the workers' settlements in Giza, are here somewhere in the thread available...


And all the dig reports support my beliefs.

They recently found a cistern that can't be filled by rain. We either believe there was running water or that they preferred hauling it uphill and long distances from the warm muddy Nile.

Autor, title, year, page no., please ...
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:

I would like to see your documents for that!


Herodotus said that it required ten years of preparation before construction even began.

The builders said "the dead king stands in heaven as a mountain, as a support". We blithely dismiss and reinterpret everything they said. But the PT is really quite explicit and it makes many suggestions about the reason these sites were originally developed. For instance it refers to the "Great Saw Palace".

It is quite apparent more sawing was done on the great pyramids than all other places and substances in Egypt. Logically this was "palace" was at Giza.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:

Piece of evidence free, just your "believe" ... But we are not in a church here!


There are hundreds of mentions all through history that say the gods built the pyramid. These mentions are all misunderstood because we don't translate "gods" properly. We think they were imaginary consciousnesses but in actually they represented theory and in aggregate they represented reality and all human knowledge.

1101a. Further, to say: Men and gods, your arms under me,
1101b. while you raise me and lift me up to heaven,
1101c. as the arms of Shu (were) under the sky as he lifted her up--
1101d. to heaven, to heaven, to the great seat, among the gods!

The gods lifted the dead king as the pyramid. Men and gods worked together to build the king. Mehet weret channeled the celestial waters as tefnut lifted the earth using her arms.

The Pyramid Texts is coherent and consistent and so is history. We merely misunderstand.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:

Autor, title, year, page no., please ...


I believe this was the spring 2014 dig report as published in Aera. I don't remember right now and the link is on my other computer.

This is exactly the sort of data that is being overlooked. This is what people do; interpret every single thing they see in terms of their beliefs. I'm not smarter that Dr Lehner but I don't expect he will ever find evidence of highly superstitious people and ramps so i see what I expect and he sees what he expects. The difference is all the physical evidence and the PT support me and not Lehner. He is probably wrong while I might be right. This is why theory fits the evidence; it was built around the evidence.

Most of what we actually know about the pyramids and their builders wasn't even discovered yet when someone first proposed that the pyramids were tombs dragged up ramps by changeless and highly superstitious people. New evidence shows these assumptions are wrong but this is hard to see because we see what we believe preferentially to what exists.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cladking wrote:
Lutz wrote:

I would like to see your documents for that!

Herodotus said that it required ten years of preparation before construction even began. ...

Herodot tells what he was told 2000 years after the construction. Anyone who has ever been in Egypt and listened to a guide knows how much that is worth ...

Apart from that, it does not support your claim that the Giza pyramids were built there because "These site were important long before the pyramids were built for industrial purposes.". This merely states that a certain amount of preparation was needed to supply the local people and start the construction, what nobody doubted that either.

cladking wrote:
... And all the dig reports support my beliefs. ...

Again, autor, title, year, page no., please ...
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cladking wrote:
I'm not smarter that Dr Lehner but I don't expect he will ever find evidence of highly superstitious people and ramps so i see what I expect and he sees what he expects.


And yet, ironically, Dr. Lehner went to Giza looking to find support for Edgar Cayce's ideas... but the evidence was not there when he looked. The evidence itself led Dr. Lehner to the archaeological conclusion he had initially resisted. That does not suggest a closed mind at all-- rather, quite the opposite.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:40 pm    Post subject: re Reply with quote

Not interested in Bigfoot Clanking. Aliens is but a word these people made in order to label something they don't understand. Same goes for the devil which is a bit of an insult to poor old Poseidon when you think about it. The old ways were abolished by the new order & the new order still think they control our future. Except-lol if they insist on damaging the world still in the name of greed-then their future will be darkness & sadly the majority of these people whom they manipulate daily through their media, their technology & the overpowering message 'rich is the new cool' just.don't.get.it.
There is nothing wrong with what Herodotus wrote. Except any parts which are missing courtesy of our old friends who deemed it so over the ages. It's possible. Let's face it-They've lied about everything else, in particular religion. Pick up any known bible. You,ll struggle to find anything that has anything good to say about the Egyptians. Bad ol Ramses was my gout of brainwashing bs I got nearly every Sunday at sunday school. As a kid-I thought the Egyptians were monsters who murdered infants. Was the man who solved the stone told that should he find anything in Egypt which contradicts the teachings of the church he 'may not publish it.' I can almost believe that. It pleases me to know the church showed their cards then. Pleases me greatly to be precise. Thanks for calling me a troll Ikon. Such arrogance. To think that I dedicate my life to helping all. The point of the discussion was to discuss why the pyramids are not tombs-not to insult others or bully another person either. I don't like bullies in whatever shape or form they inhabit & I have counted several here so far. I don't like the way you talk or how you talk to others. Now seeing as people have insulted others here when there is no need for it-I took the liberty of digressing from the subject. Any problems, then by all means, howl to the moderator but be sure to mention the part where I got called a troll for starting a discussion. I have taken it upon myself to learning the language of the ancient egyptians these past months. I have not read the book of the dead or the pyramid texts yet as I have countless things to do first, so I guess in your eyes, I'm a fool & also a troll right? I am no fool. I know things about the great pyramids which I have not shared with the world yet & I have my reasons for not doing so. I do not have to disclose to you my reasons either. Evidence-yes. Now it's possible that they were neither tombs as it is also possible that they were tombs. Khufu's name is mentioned but that does not mean he was buried there & if he was buried there, then he may have been up to something or to be plain, he fancied himself. Why should arrogance not exist amongst Pharoahs. It's also possible that we have not been translating this language 100% . We're not thinking outside the box here! Nor are we insulting any well-known Egyptologist, so relax Ikon. Just because it's not in any book you know of-does not mean it is not true. There is a reason why things happen the way they happen. There's a reason why some of us know things & some of us do not. You can spend your whole life looking for something & then in a hundred years somebody else comes along & spots what Egyptologists in the 1800's did not. That's not a slight on them or any form of insult. No-it's the way it goes. If you are an expert or hold title in this day & age-people listen. When you,re a commoner, who cares what your opinion is. That's the truth of Egyptology & it's shameful. It's also the truth of our world I note & our world is slowly falling apart. Look around you. If you have no ***who wants to know you. Our world is dying..I came on here looking for help & I get called a troll into the bargain. I've been called worse I guess. Truth is-you don't know the half of it. But you're going to Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:50 pm    Post subject: Re: re Reply with quote

M wrote:
Not interested in Bigfoot Clanking. Aliens is but a word these people made in order to label something they don't understand. Same goes for the devil which is a bit of an insult to poor old Poseidon when you think about it. The old ways were abolished by the new order & the new order still think they control our future. Except-lol if they insist on damaging the world still in the name of greed-then their future will be darkness & sadly the majority of these people whom they manipulate daily through their media, their technology & the overpowering message 'rich is the new cool' just.don't.get.it.
There is nothing wrong with what Herodotus wrote. Except any parts which are missing courtesy of our old friends who deemed it so over the ages. It's possible. Let's face it-They've lied about everything else, in particular religion. Pick up any known bible. You,ll struggle to find anything that has anything good to say about the Egyptians. Bad ol Ramses was my gout of brainwashing bs I got nearly every Sunday at sunday school. As a kid-I thought the Egyptians were monsters who murdered infants. Was the man who solved the stone told that should he find anything in Egypt which contradicts the teachings of the church he 'may not publish it.' I can almost believe that. It pleases me to know the church showed their cards then. Pleases me greatly to be precise. Thanks for calling me a troll Ikon. Such arrogance. To think that I dedicate my life to helping all. The point of the discussion was to discuss why the pyramids are not tombs-not to insult others or bully another person either. I don't like bullies in whatever shape or form they inhabit & I have counted several here so far. I don't like the way you talk or how you talk to others. Now seeing as people have insulted others here when there is no need for it-I took the liberty of digressing from the subject. Any problems, then by all means, howl to the moderator but be sure to mention the part where I got called a troll for starting a discussion. I have taken it upon myself to learning the language of the ancient egyptians these past months. I have not read the book of the dead or the pyramid texts yet as I have countless things to do first, so I guess in your eyes, I'm a fool & also a troll right? I am no fool. I know things about the great pyramids which I have not shared with the world yet & I have my reasons for not doing so. I do not have to disclose to you my reasons either. Evidence-yes. Now it's possible that they were neither tombs as it is also possible that they were tombs. Khufu's name is mentioned but that does not mean he was buried there & if he was buried there, then he may have been up to something or to be plain, he fancied himself. Why should arrogance not exist amongst Pharoahs. It's also possible that we have not been translating this language 100% . We're not thinking outside the box here! Nor are we insulting any well-known Egyptologist, so relax Ikon. Just because it's not in any book you know of-does not mean it is not true. There is a reason why things happen the way they happen. There's a reason why some of us know things & some of us do not. You can spend your whole life looking for something & then in a hundred years somebody else comes along & spots what Egyptologists in the 1800's did not. That's not a slight on them or any form of insult. No-it's the way it goes. If you are an expert or hold title in this day & age-people listen. When you,re a commoner, who cares what your opinion is. That's the truth of Egyptology & it's shameful. It's also the truth of our world I note & our world is slowly falling apart. Look around you. If you have no ***who wants to know you. Our world is dying..I came on here looking for help & I get called a troll into the bargain. I've been called worse I guess. Truth is-you don't know the half of it. But you're going to Smile


You clearly have a problem with current religion, and your rant has no place here. Try the GH, UM or some other forum where discussion of fringe topics and weird ranting is not just allowed, but is their lifeblood. From your post it is also very clear that I was not insulting you by calling you out as a troll, but merely stating a fact. Your OP was "odd" for the first post on a forum that is supposed to be about serious discussions of ancient Egypt, and would ring alarm bells in any forum by it's tone. And this post of yours looks to be written in such a contorted way as to deliberately hide your normal writing style, and if it is your normal style, then you would never get far here anyway. I can see you are very likely a native English speaker, so the contortions are deliberate.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: re Reply with quote

M wrote:
... There is nothing wrong with what Herodotus wrote. ...

From "The History of Herodot - The Second Book"
Chapter 126 :



Chapter 127 :



M wrote:
... I know things about the great pyramids which I have not shared with the world yet & I have my reasons for not doing so. ...

Very nice ... Let's just leave it this way!
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