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Obscure Gods and Goddesses
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:34 am    Post subject: Obscure Gods and Goddesses Reply with quote

The richness of the Egyptian pantheon just never ceases to amaze me Very Happy
Found some that are mentioned in for instance Breasted's book, but where not much info seems to be available. Either that, or I don't have the right books Sad

Khaftet-hir-nebes – goddess of western thebes (hymn of victory of Thutmosis I) also mentioned on a building inscription from Hatshepsut/Thutmosis III

Serek – goddess present at birth of Hatshepsut?

Kheseti - god present at coronation of Hatshepsut?

The most interesting I thought was
Rayet - feminine form of Ra (relief of transportations of obelisks – Hatshepsut) I had no idea Ra had a female counterpart!
Unless this is done in reference to Hatshepsut? Pharaohs were usually known as "Son of Re". Maybe she was "daughter of Rayet"?? Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not familiar with the first three, but I know of Raet and she far predates Hatshepsut. She's attested as far back as the Pyramid Texts of the 5th Dynasty, and it's believed she was a deliberate creation by the Heliopolitan priests of that time to be a balance or counterpart to Re. She also goes by the name Raettawy ("Raet of the Two Lands"). Raet never reached much prominence and in depictions she actually resembles Hathor. She lasted a very long time, though--all the way into the Greco-Roman period.

There were no doubt many minor or regional deities we'll never even know about. More prominent gods and goddesses rose in popularity and assumed the forms and attributes of older or lesser-known or regional deities, kind of like Anubis with Wepwawet and Osiris with Wenefer.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The egyptian scribe wrote:
I know of Raet and she far predates Hatshepsut. She's attested as far back as the Pyramid Texts of the 5th Dynasty, and it's believed she was a deliberate creation by the Heliopolitan priests of that time to be a balance or counterpart to Re. She also goes by the name Raettawy ("Raet of the Two Lands"). Raet never reached much prominence and in depictions she actually resembles Hathor. She lasted a very long time, though--all the way into the Greco-Roman period.

That's interesting. I had never heart of either Raet or Raettawy either.
I guess several other gods had "female counterparts". Amun and Amunet for instance. The 'et' part is just a feminine ending of a name after all.

Does Rayet (I somehow like that form of the name) play any role in the myths?
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen Raet spelt 'Rat' somewhere else...that would get confusing with rodents...there's also a goddess called Bat right? And she's not a bat, she's a cow.

Is Wenefer a seperate god? I thought that was simply another name of Osiris, not a seperate deity. There was another deity who Osiris evolved from, can't remember the name now...

Can anyone tell me who Harendotes is? I get the feeling it's a later greek addition...
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isisinacrisis wrote:
I've seen Raet spelt 'Rat' somewhere else...that would get confusing with rodents...there's also a goddess called Bat right? And she's not a bat, she's a cow.

Lol. Interesting that the egyptian could see something holy in even crocodiles and dung beetles, but even they drew the line at rats Very Happy
Would be rather startling to see a rat headed deity.

I had never heard of Bat. Sounds close to Bast. But you know your mythology way too well to get confused on that account.
I guess that the cow/bull worhip is very very old. Dates to the predynastic times, so it makes sense for different goddesses with attributes of a cow-goddess to appear in different places.

isisinacrisis wrote:
Is Wenefer a seperate god? I thought that was simply another name of Osiris, not a seperate deity. There was another deity who Osiris evolved from, can't remember the name now...

I had always thought that Wennefer was another name for Osiris as well, although the egyptian name of Osiris (Aser or something like that) is not in any way similar to Wennefer.

Do you mean Sokar. I think Sokar was the god of resurrection in the early dynastic period. I think he was always seperate from Osiris though. I believe Sokar was later merged with Ptah.
(Doing this off the top of my head, so I hope I'm right Smile )

isisinacrisis wrote:
Can anyone tell me who Harendotes is? I get the feeling it's a later greek addition...

Did look this one up. Harendotes is the Greek name for Hor-nedy-her-atef (Horus the avenger of his father). This is one of the name of the son of Osiris, Horus. I can't tell if it's an early or late form/incarnation of this god.
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sokar wasn't the god I was thinking of. The god I'm thinking of has a 'double barrelled' name (ooh er, sounds posh, huh? Wink ) and there was another one beginning with 'A', both got blended into Osiris.

I think Bat is the predecessor of Hathor.

Yes, it seems Horus did have loads of names.
Speaking of which...from obscure deities to obscure myths: has anyone heard of the myth of Horus being born from an acacia tree? I saw that written somewhere but I think that person got mixed up with the myth of Osiris's coffin being trapped in a tree.
And has anyone heard of a myth where Geb rapes his mother??? Shocked Someone mentioned it in passing and didn't explain more. I have not heard of this though.
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another question: was Bastet ever associated with perfume?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never heard of Geb raping his mother.His parents were Shu and Tefnut, he was the twin brother and husband of Nut, and was the father of Osiris, Isis, Seth and Nephthys.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll add a couple of things here.

I don't think much is known about the origin of Wenefer, other than that he was a funerary deity and one of many manifestations absorbed by Osiris. I'm not sure what you mean by "double-barreled," isisinacrisis, but the other Osirian form you're thinking of could be either Andjety or Khentyimentu. The former is an ancient god of the Delta city of Busiris (Djedu to the Egyptians), so eventually that's why you see Osiris described as "lord of Djedu" as well as "lord of Abydos"; he incorporated numerous ancient funerary deities both south and north. The latter is another example; khnty-imntu means "foremost of the Westerners" and reflects the role Osiris developed as lord of the souls who have passed into death. Khentyimentu was originally a jackal god of the Abydos region (no relation to Anubis).

I think Bat is kind of interesting. As isisinacrisis mentioned, she was a bovine goddess. Bat is porbably even older than Hathor, though Hathor ended up more or less supplanting her. Of course the name has nothing to do with cute little flying rodents (well, I think some bats are cute); just think about it and sound it out, and it's rather easy to decipher. B3t is simply the feminine form of b3, so the name basically means "female spirit." Bat was never depcited much in artwork, but it's more than likely that the bovine figure on the Narmer palette is her and not Hathor. She was pretty much absorbed by Hathor and gone from popularity by the Middle Kingdom. Her focus of worship was in the area of modern Nag Hammadi, and interestingly, her cult center was called "mansion of the sistrum"--another Hathoric similarity.

Quote:
And has anyone heard of a myth where Geb rapes his mother???


It's unlikely the Egyptians themselves ever developed this spin, but after the 30th Dynasty there is mention of it based on a Greek myth about Ouranos and his son Chronos, the latter of whom the Greeks identified with Geb.

When you stop to think about it, most of the Egyptian deities, given their many and varied foibles, would make a perfect guest cast for the Jerry Springer Show.

Quote:
Does Rayet (I somehow like that form of the name) play any role in the myths?


Almost forgot to answer this, anneke. Sorry. I don't know to what extent Raet figured in the myths. She never reached major status and began life as more or less a character role for Re in the Pyramid Texts. Like I said, though, she did last all the way into the Greco-Roman Period and at that time was worshiped along with Montu at a Greek temple at Medamud. In depictions Raet resembles Hathor, complete with solar disk, horns, and a uraeus. Sorry I can't be of much more help.

I'll stop blathering on now. Thanks for your patience, folks.
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know what? I saw a website ages ago with a spoof of Jerry Springer with Isis and Osiris, and Set. Yup, that's right. Hilarious it was too Laughing I also did a Jerry Springer style trial between Horus and Set in one of my old spoofs of the Isis and Osiris myth...
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, back to obscure gods...

Has anyone here heard of a desert god called As, or Ash?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to touregypt As(h) was the patron of the desert and appeared as a man with the head of a Hawk.
As was the "Lord of Libya" and the god of the Sahara Desert. Although sometimes depicted as a companion of Set (who had the duties of the god of desert storms), As was a benign god who caused the oases to be made. He also looked after those who had to travel through the desert, ensuring that they did not die of its cruel heat.

Another site has this to say:
"The Egyptian god of the Libyan Desert (Sahara), called 'Lord of Libya'. As a desert god he was sometimes identified with Seth. Ash was associated with the fertile oases. He was depicted as a man with the head of a hawk. "

I wonder if the identification with Seth is from a later time? Seth somewhat "reinvented himself" in later times, being seen as the god of the desert instead of just the god of chaos. Made me wonder if the identification with As(h) had something to do with that??

From a third site I get this:

"Ash was during the first dynasties connected to the foundations of royal estates. Later he was also protector of the western desert and all oases and sometimes called "Lord of Libya". His written history goes back to the early dynastic times and he was the very first god ever to be depicted with a human body and an animal's head. In the second dynasty during the rule of king Peribsen he was thus shown on sealings wearing the white crown of Upper Egypt. As caretaker of the desert areas he was very alike (almost identical to) Set, who also had duties in these areas. Apart from his possibly three different heads (falcon, lion and cobra) he could also wear Set's pig like one. By the advent of the Old Kingdom his fame was declining and thereafter his rival Set replaced him for good. "


Hmmmm.... Rather different descriptions eh? But possibly not mutually exclusive.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The identification of Ash with Set was intensified by the fact that Ash was probably the original deity of the Ombos region. That area was called Nebut by the Egyptians and Ash was known as Nebuti, or "he of Nebut." And later on Ombos became the Upper Egyptian cult center of Set.

There is some evidence that Ash could also be represented as a lion, vulture, and serpent because of artwork found on a later coffin, but that's not conclusive. There's no evidence that Ash ever had a cult of his own, but he appears in some temple scenes and in one of the 5th Dynasty pyramid temples of Sahure at Abusir.

Ash was most closely identified with the Western Desert specifically, but because of the desert role he and Set became closely associated. But as anneke quoted in her post, Ash declined in popularity as Set rose. I think it's interesting that while Ash represents the desert, he is emphasized as the lord of oases and protector of travelers--postive aspects of the desert. Set, on the other hand, represented the negative and chaotic aspects of the Red Land, right down to its violent storms.
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, more less well known deities. Can anyone tell me more about Quetesh? Apparently she was a sex goddess from another country? Someone said she 'did her thing with Horus', but I think that person got mixed up with Hathor.

And who is Rat-tawy? Is she related to Rat?
One site I visited claimed she was the mother of Horus the child (oh please no, not that dreaded argument about Horus's parentage again! My poor head... Laughing anyway that claim is wrong because that specific Horus was born from Isis...maybe another Horus was born from this goddess?)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ok, more less well known deities. Can anyone tell me more about Quetesh? Apparently she was a sex goddess from another country? Someone said she 'did her thing with Horus', but I think that person got mixed up with Hathor.


By "Quetesh" do you mean Qadesh? She's the only one close to the spelling I can think of. Qadesh was a Syrian goddess of pleasure and eroticism who became very popular in Egypt particularly in the New Kingdom. She became part of a popular member of the triad consisting also of Min (one of the premiere Egyptian fertility gods) and the god Reshep (a Canaanite deity of war and thunder). This must have been quite the menage a' trois! In Canaan Quadesh and Reshep were a sacred couple. Quadesh was often linked with Hathor, not surprisinigly. In artwork Qadesh is generally shown frontally as a naked woman holding lotus blossoms (which have erotic connotations) in one hand. It's entirely possible in the myths that she and Horus "got it on," but I don't know of any examples.

Quote:
And who is Rat-tawy? Is she related to Rat?...


We've talked about her before. "Raettawy" is just another name for "Raet," the female counterpart to Re. She seems to have been an Old Kingdom invention by the Heliopolis priests and first appears in the Pyramid Texts of the 5th Dynasty. "Raettawy" simply means "Raet of the Two Lands." She remained a minor deity throughout her existence but did well enough for herself, considering she lasted well into the Greco-Roman period. To my knowledge there is no legitimate evidence that she was listed as the mother of Horus, though maybe some people look at it that way due to Horus' solar aspects.
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