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Ten Plagues of Egypt
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murphyz
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:52 am    Post subject: Ten Plagues of Egypt Reply with quote

Quick summary for those who don't already know:

The Ten Plagues of Egypt, as depicted within Exodus are taken from 3 different sources and combined to form the one story as written in the Bible. No one can say for sure if these events actually occurred and, if they did, if there were actually ten plagues or if some of them, such as Lice and Flies, were simply the same plague but taken from two different sources.

The ten plagues were as follows:
Plague One - River of Blood
Plague Two - Frogs
Plague Three - Lice
Plague Four - Flies
Plague Five - The Murrain of Cattle
Plague Six - Boils and Blains
Plague Seven - Hail
Plague Eight - Locusts
Plague Nine - Darkness
Plague Ten - Death of the Firstborn

According to Exodus they occured at the hand of Moses, through the direction of God, in order to get Pharaoh to free the Israelites.

Many scientists have studied these incidents in an attempt to piece together exactly what happend, obviously from a scientific point of view, if they are real.

Some theories state that the river of blood was created due to a bloom of dinoflagellates in the Nile, which started to eat away at the fish and, containing red pigments, turned the water red (the blood of the fish helping somewhat). This triggered the second plague, due to a lack of fish being unable to eat the spawn and, therefore, a greater number of amphibian spawning and, due to the state of the Nile, being forced onto the land. Over population of amphibian means less insects, so they die off both naturally and with human intervention leaving the opposite effect of hardly any frogs and toads, which in turn created an abundance of lice/flies/mosquito and so on and so on throughout each of the plagues, one triggering the next one.

Sooo (finally), I was hoping to hear your views on the plagues and whether or not you feel they actually happened and, if so, was it the act of God or could it just have been an ecological domino effect with comedy timing?

Mxx
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hail? In egypt.

the death of the first born also doesnt fit with that.

Honesty i dont think the exodus happened the way it did in the bible.
If it happened at all. I have been told about sources of exodus other than the bible (a hittite source) but i wasnt told much more. The exodus is long way from when the bible was actually writen in 400-300 BC compared to the time of ramesses the second (1200 BC).
The real story would have been romanticised by the story tellers over generations ... like the legend of King Arthur.
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Jason Patterson
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, in my opinion which is based on a theory from the University of Georgia professor it did happen the way it did, but was in a chain reaction from one event.

This one event was the eruption of the volcano on Thera. There was a city, or at least part of a city excavated on a dried river that was once connected to the Nile Delta near the Sinai Pen. They discovered that it was built as a military outpost, in which they theorize that was the city in which is mentioned in the Bible as the "Pharaoh's City". Discovering that there were stables for chariots, I believe he said that there were somewhere between 100 to a 150 places for the horses and charioteers.

Now to the plagues. The plagues were the result of the volcano eruption on Thera as stated above. Now let us annalize each one. River of Blood, there is a organism found off the coast of Georga and South Carolina which is called Red Tide due to the millions of organisms they cause the water turn red. This I believe is the only plague not caused by the volcanic eruption.

Frogs, which murphyz pointed out [Over population of amphibian means less insects, so they die off both naturally and with human intervention leaving the opposite effect of hardly any frogs and toads, which in turn created an abundance of lice/flies/mosquito]. The next four plagues route from this.

Hail, it has been noted that when Mt. St. Helens erupted that it began to hail, and there were a over population of frogs around the river sources near the blast site. This would also be the case for Egypt. The cloud coverage of ash and smoke would reach the shores of Egypt and other Med. Sea coasts one the first minor eruption which would start the hail. The hail would have cause damage to crops, not to mention the dead cattle and infections from the flies and lice would spawn locusts near the Nile Delta.

Darkness, the first eruption caused the ash and clouds to cover a good bit of the earth, and Egypt was not an exception. Thus caused the darkness. Death of the firstborn, well this may have been dramatized in the Bible, with the disease from the five plagues must have caused death and children as adults were killed due to it.

Now let me go a little bit futher with this. After these plagues came the Israelites fled Egypt to the Siani. Well it says in the Bible that they parted the Red Sea and entered the Siani. This was a miss-translation from Hebrew to Greek. It has been pointed out that the correct translation is the Sea of Reeds. Which incidently is located just west of the location of the city they excivated. The professor states that it is not an actual sea but another tributary from the Nile which is now dried up.

To the parting. About this time the second eruption happened, this is the one that clouded most of the earth and sunk Thera. Now as the shock wave rushed towards the coast line the water is pulled from the rivers and shore, as with a earthquake. With this advantage the Israelites went across but as the Egyptian garrison from the city approached the shock wave hit the coast causing the water to rush forth blocking their path or as in the Bible washing over them.

That is my opinion on the subject.
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murphyz
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We agree on the red tides then, a similar one occurred in Japan in 1998 or 1998, as well ad the one Gorgia.

Death of the firstborn. Yes, with the other plagues wiping out their crops and cattle, the stored food is all that they would have left, and there would no doubt be toxins in the stored food - some from insects of previous plagues. As it is generally the older members of the children, i.e. the first born to the family, that did the majority if the labouring in Egypt, they would no doubt be entitled to a larger portion of the food. Other family members will no doubt have enough of the store to make them feel sick, but the extra quantities given to the first born/primary workers may have been enough to kill them.

Mxx
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2004 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

where ot what is a Thera.

i didnt know there was volcanos on egypt?
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murphyz
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2004 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wasn't Thera a Greek island?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2004 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thera is it's ancient Greek name. It's modern name is Santorini. It is located off the coast of Crete.


This is a map of Thera notice that the water is seperating the five islands, this is because the explosion of volcano sunk the rest of the island. It is also theorized to be one of the reasons for the destruction of the Minoan civilization.

Also like to note that this eruption was one of the most violent and largest in history.

Here is a map showing the exact position of Thera in the Aegean:
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah .. i read somewhere that this island is the most likely contender for Disney Land...
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, there are many theories of 'Disney Land' but none can be proven. In my point of view it was a parable created by Plato to show how greed will destroy us.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jason Patterson wrote:
Yes, there are many theories of 'Disney Land' but none can be proven. In my point of view it was a parable created by Plato to show how greed will destroy us.


you could say similar things about the exodus and the ten plaugues ....
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and McDonalds Laughing

Mxx
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
you could say similar things about the exodus and the ten plaugues ....


Actually there is evidence to support that theory.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there was alot of migration around that time the people of agean isles left there and invaded, anatolia and syria and palestine
Egypt also was under attack. From the sea people (their name for the agean settlers)

A volcanic eruption does explain the sudden migration from the agean isles though.

Maybe you would like to provide the ancient sources or archelogical evidence that proves the exodus occurs. (Excluding the bible i aready know about that one.) I'd be very interested in that.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
there was alot of migration around that time the people of agean isles left there and invaded, anatolia and syria and palestine
Egypt also was under attack. From the sea people (their name for the agean settlers)

This is a bit wrong. Firstly the eruption of Thera was in about 1628/7 B.C. the migration of the Sea People, which I will get to in a minute, was around 1200 B.C. as you can see the time difference.

The Sea People were not only Aegeanic but also Lybian, Lycians, Etruscans, Sicilians, Sardinians, and the Philistines. As you can see this was a mass migration in the New Kingdom which happened years after the eruption. In the same respect they did invade souther Anatolia moved south into Syria and gained new tribes and were stoped around Judea if I remember correctly. Also they landed in Lybia and moved slowly east into Egypt.

Here is a small map of the incursions the Egyptians had with the Sea People the first time they landed:


Quote:
A volcanic eruption does explain the sudden migration from the agean isles though.

Maybe you would like to provide the ancient sources or archelogical evidence that proves the exodus occurs. (Excluding the bible i aready know about that one.) I'd be very interested in that.


Well some of the interesting studies on the subject by Dr. Hendrik J. Bruins and Johannes van der Plicht. These studies examined one of the Egyptian plagues (before the Exodus) and demise of Jericho (after the Exodus). Dr. Hendrik J. Bruins and Johannes van der Plicht reported in the prestigious British journal, Nature,1 that the destruction of Jericho was dated to 1580 B.C. (using 14C dating). This date is significant, since several archeologists have insisted that Jericho was destroyed by the Egyptians between 1550 and 1300 B.C. The recent study discredits the Egyptian theory, since the date is much too old.

What is even more interesting is that scientists, using 14C dating and tree rings, have found evidence of a volcanic eruption from the Aegean island of Thera, which has been dated to 1628 B.C.2 This would place the eruption at 45 years prior to the destruction of Jericho, at a time which coincidentally corresponds to the time of the plagues the Lord unleashed upon Egypt. See the cross view of Exodus 10:

Then the Lord said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand toward the sky, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even a darkness which may be felt.” So Moses stretched out his hand toward the sky, and there was thick darkness in all the land of Egypt for three days. (Exodus 10:21-22)

But this is only a scratch, as this is an ongoing research in which we will have to wait and see what develops.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also here is a little more information, but still has reference of Jews in Egypt.

A painting on the wall of the tomb of Khnumhotep (1892 B.C.) at Beni Hasan in Egypt shows "Asiatics", or non-Egyptian people from the Mideast. They had black hair, pointed beards, long many-colored cloaks, bows, and throw sticks.
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