Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Where is the nose of the Great Sfinx?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Sphinx
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I read in Kent Weeks book 'The Lost Tomb' the other day that an evolved version of the Opet festival is still celebrated here.


Now that you mention it I remember that from Weeks's book, and I've read about it elsewhere. This is a terrific example of how ancient traditions are mixed with modern religious observances. One wonders if the Muslim participants in this modern version are aware of the mixing of the two worlds?

Quote:
One does not enter a tomb when following a duck!...Snakes must be completely annialated when killed so that it does not follow you for ever.


So, would it be a made thing merely to step on a snake and kill it while you're following a duck into a tomb? Laughing

I've never heard of those two examples, though the duck kind of makes sense. In ancient Egypt it was considered an act of overcoming the forces of chaos to take down ducks in the hunt.
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moderator's Note: The new discussion about the crook and flail is not on topic with this discussion, so I moved it to the Miscellaneous forum. If you wish to continue with it, click the link below:

Crook and Flail


Smile
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cleopatra_selene
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 375
Location: Kathmandu, Nepal

PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what evidence is there of copts being the true desendents of ancient egyptains? Because didnt the ancient egyptains mix into greek/ roman people and slowly the direct bloodline disintrigrated?
_________________
"The differences in character of the pharaohs are not determined by the nature of their souls, for all kingly souls are godlike, but by the gods themselves"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cleopatra_selene
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 375
Location: Kathmandu, Nepal

PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what evidence is there of copts being the true desendents of ancient egyptains? Because didnt the ancient egyptains mix into greek/ roman people and slowly the direct bloodline disintrigrated?
_________________
"The differences in character of the pharaohs are not determined by the nature of their souls, for all kingly souls are godlike, but by the gods themselves"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
what evidence is there of copts being the true desendents of ancient egyptains? Because didnt the ancient egyptains mix into greek/ roman people and slowly the direct bloodline disintrigrated?


All told, the Greeks and the Romans were in Egypt for over 600 years. That might seem like a long stretch of time, but it's not nearly long enough for an entire culture to have been fully integrated into and disintegrated by foreign cultures. Added to this is the fact that while Greeks and Romans lived alongside Egyptians up and down the Nile, most of the Greek and Roman peoples were concentrated in the Delta and Fayum area; there were probably large numbers of Egyptians to the south who rarely ever saw a Greek or Roman.

Christianity came to Egypt from immigrants traveling from Syro-Palestine, and of course from the Roman empire itself. It quickly spread so that when Christianity became the official and required religion of Egypt (in 535 BCE, under Justinian), the new law probably was no shocker to the Egyptians because so many of them had become Christians by then, anyway. The Christians of Egypt later broke from the Roman Catholic Church and since that time have been known as the Copts, to differentiate them from their European brethern.

A blend of Greek and Egyptian demotic script is how the Coptic language was written--it's the modern descendant of the ancient Egyptian language spoken by the pharaohs of old. So even linguistically there is ample evidence of the Copts' ties to their ancient culture.

There are still plenty of Coptic Christians in Egypt (as well as Ethiopia and other African nations). It's well known how insular the Copts are in Egypt; all along they have been hesitant to marry outside their own culture. This is why they comprise only about 6% of the Egyptian population today.
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cleopatra_selene
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 375
Location: Kathmandu, Nepal

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so if there was not enough time to mix with other culture and since copts are rather conservative about blending in with others, could DNA prove their bloodline? Cause that wud be interesting...i dont know if this is possible but if a mumy's dna (if it still has survived the thousands of years) could be compared to a copt's dna...
_________________
"The differences in character of the pharaohs are not determined by the nature of their souls, for all kingly souls are godlike, but by the gods themselves"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Such a thing might just be possible, and it's very interesting to think about. It's unlikely mummification would cause such damage that DNA would be unrecoverable, and in fact DNA analysis has been conducted on Egyptian mummies--to a very limited extent. It's hard to fathom the reason but the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities does not seem to trust DNA analysis and almost never permits it on the mummies in its own care.

Zahi Hawass, the Secretary General of the SCA, calls DNA testing unreliable. He is not qualified to make such a decision on behalf of an entire field of study, but yet he has. He's an archaeologist and government administrator, not a biologist or scientist. I know a biochemist from Egypt who works for research and development in a large *** company, and he can only chuckle at Hawass's distrust of DNA testing.

As I mentioned, a small amount of DNA testing has been conducted in Egypt, and there's a PDF out there on the web that you can download to read about the results. I tried to find it again but was not successful.

The reason I like your idea--testing a modern Copts' DNA and an ancient mummy's DNA--is a special I saw on TV some time ago. I believe it took place in England. Paleolithic human skeletal remains were found and, if I remember correctly, a local school science teacher was interested in seeing if it was possible to find any connection between this "caveman" and modern residents of the town near where the remains had been excavated. They tested the blood of many of the town's people, inculding the schoolchildren, and it turned out that there was a genetic connection between the paleolithic remains and the science teacher! How cool is that?

I don't know if there would be any such success with a modern Copt and an ancient mummy, however. You'd have to find some kind of genetic familial connection to know for certain, and what are the chances that they'd find just the right Copt and just the right mummy? Razz
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy How's this for a happy coincidence? I just happened to find something about that "caveman" from England and it turns out my memory isn't so awful after all. The skeleton was dubbed "Cheddar Man" because of the nearby community of Cheddar, and the schoolteacher's name was Adrian Targett. He taught history, however, not science.

Here is a link regarding the investigation. It's really quite interesting:

Cheddar Man
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no expert at genetics but if they did end up comparing a mummy's and a Copt's DNA, wouldn't there still be a similarity of sorts even if the mummy wasn't an actual familial ancestor of the modern person? (if you go with the assumption that there is a connection with them anyway) It's unlikely that they'd dig up this person's great great great great (insert loads of greats here) grandfather/mother, though it would be cool if that was the case, but even so there may be some kind of genetic similarity showing that they weren't related, but were of the same (or not the same) ethnic group?

I read that article about not testing Tut's DNA for stupid frivolous reasons, and it's such a shame. I don't see what the SCA is so worried about (apart from maybe some damage to mummies).
_________________
High-Priestess of Isis, Hereditary Princess, Lady of Philae, Favourite of Osiris, the Lord of Abydos, Daughter of Horus, Chantress of Bastet, Superior of the Kitty Litter Wink
<---Check out my av-I made it myself Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm also certainly no expert on DNA analysis, but I do know that it's been used by the modern descendants of black slaves in the United States to help them pen down the area in Africa from which their ancestors came. Many such blacks in the U.S. have fractured family histories because of slavery, so there is a compelling reason to help these people to understand their roots. So by this example it would sure seem that genetic analysis can help determine not only race, but the specific area of a country from which a person's ancestor's originated. I don't know how useful this would be between a modern Copt and an ancient Egyptian mummy, but in the very least it would show what we already know: that the Copts are descendants of the ancient Egyptians.
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cleopatra_selene
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 375
Location: Kathmandu, Nepal

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't know how useful this would be between a modern Copt and an ancient Egyptian mummy, but in the very least it would show what we already know: that the Copts are descendants of the ancient Egyptians.


See i dont rest easy with such generalizations such as assuming stuff...im more of a hard facts person and besides...DNA has been found to link all people with eve- the first anthro..somthing..i forgot what prehistoric human she was...but yeah..so if they can link prehistoric people with people of today...fingers crossed...they can link ancient egyptains with copts
_________________
"The differences in character of the pharaohs are not determined by the nature of their souls, for all kingly souls are godlike, but by the gods themselves"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
coptic sudanese
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:26 pm    Post subject: Great discussion Reply with quote

i am a coptic and i admire all your interest in my people.
I agree with everything you all have said and enjoyed reading it all.
we do believe we derived from the ancient egyptians and we dont consider ourselves arabs.
they dont recommend us to marry outside our coptic community so we dont lose our heritage but that has been broken now..lol..
i grew up in australia..as so many copts have fled from muslim prosecution in egypt and sudan and now live abroad..

growing up in a western country, all of my cousins and coptic friends have married outside our culture..it seems our parents generation kept within but all of our generation now have broken it..

it is hard for someone from outside the culture to come into it, as they have to be baptized in our coptic orthodox church etc etc. and some people have been scared and called off weddings by this..
But people know we are ancient in our beliefs and it dates back to biblical times so they are happy to convert n marry the person.

the cross thats tattooed on the inside of our wrists, (my generation, not many of us have it) is the coptic cross and was a sign of being proud and to let people know that you are a coptic...im thinking of getting one Smile
the coptic language is derived from greek and dates back to hieroglyphics..we speak it during our holy liturgy in our coptic church..unfortunatley the coptic language is now extinct which is a shame, our language is arabic now which happened from the arab invasion in egypt..but we have kept the coptic language strong and is spoken in our orthodox church liturgies.

copts are not treated the same in egypt..for hundreds of years, many are tortured, kidnapped and killed..even until now..last week many were attacked for no reason..we pray and keep to ourselves and dont bother any one and muslims there seem to hate us..i feel sad for them, they are suffering in their own country by people that came in from other..

here is a link to a youtube video on the history of copts..you may find it interesting Smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB0WPuNNT-g

anyway hope i filled you all in info you may not have known, you guys seem knowledgeable enough Smile if you have any question im happy to answer them..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jake26
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i dont think anybody gonna believe me. but the nose to the sphinx is at the british museum in the ancient egypt department. as is a pice that would have been on top of the head. how do i no this. well i have seen them when i did a weeks work experience in november 2000. i no as a fact there are over there to 4000 object that the british museum as in it private collection. that the Egyptian dont even no they have.
_________________
After clearing 9 metres of the descending passage, in about the middle of the afternoon, we came upon a second sealed doorway, which was almost the exact replica of the first.
Howard Carter
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3705
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jake26 wrote:
i dont think anybody gonna believe me. but the nose to the sphinx is at the british museum in the ancient egypt department. as is a pice that would have been on top of the head. how do i no this. well i have seen them when i did a weeks work experience in november 2000. i no as a fact there are over there to 4000 object that the british museum as in it private collection. that the Egyptian dont even no they have.

Statements that have to prove, otherwise they are worthless. Anyone can say anything ... thats internet.

Lutz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
karnsculpture
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 253

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They don't have the Sphinx's nose in the British Museum, there are fragments of the beard there and at the Cairo Museum:

http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/aes/f/fragment_of_the_beard_of_the_g.aspx
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Sphinx All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group