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Dancing
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Daniella
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:29 am    Post subject: Dancing Reply with quote

It's inevetable that I would bring up this topic, but I heard women and men didn't dance with eachother, only women and women and men and men, why is this?


And who is this ashley person? she or he should be banned maybe?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never thought about men and women dancing together, but you're right I have never seen that.
That is peculiar. I would have expected to see at least some mixed dancing troupes.

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And who is this ashley person? she or he should be banned maybe?

Probably. Her post was deleted to begin with.
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Daniella
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps the mens dancing styles clashed with the womens style. Like maybe women danced very sensualy with fluid and femenin movements, and men would look awefully strange if they did the same, I don't know.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand, your avatar is based on images from tombs that show women doing very acrobatic style dances.

There are some articles about dancing in ancient egypt, but I can't find any mention of mixed company dancing:

To Dance in Ancient Egypt by Jimmy Dunn

Dance and Dancers in Ancient Egypt By Marie Parsons

On this site they specifically mention that:

"Unfortunately, apart from a number of depictions, little is known about ancient Egyptian dancing. It seems to have been uni-sex. "

Not really any explanation why some dances were done by women and some by men.

Most of the real acrobatic dancing seems to have been performed by women though.
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Daniella
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the 'To Dance in Ancient Egypt' article, there was that picture of the four seated musicians and two dancing servants, two of the musicians faces were shown front on. Is this the only picture like this? I think it's rather unique for Egyptian art.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never knew women and men never danced together in ancient Egypt. That's news to me.

That's a very famous picture because of the front-on faces. It's very rare in Egyptian art and it's a beautiful picture. I don't know if all Egyptian dance was as acrobatic as the backflip in that picture though...yikes, those are hard dance moves to recreate! Is it true that there could have been dancing similar to belly dancing in ancient Egypt as well?
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Daniella
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I do believe that belly dancing originated in Egypt and it's performed there today even and in other middle eastern countries, actually there is a restaurant down town here that has belly dancing (I should try out, lol) Anyways, also the music you dance to whlie belly dancing is Egyptian or middle eastern.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no relief or other depiction I know of that shows men and women dancing together. And though we know little about the actual styles of dance, we know for certain that there were temple dancers. In earlier times these troupes were usually women, right down to the musicians. It is in New Kingdom times that we see men becoming dance and music troupes of their own.

Some tomb walls show these dancers in action. They will show a troupe of women dancing, and another of men, but the two do not interact. Most likely this was due to purity and issues of eroticism, a line not crossed in the temples.

But I myself am not terribly familiar with depictions of festive, secular dancing, which certainly existed. Maybe one of you folks out there can direct us to a relief or papyrus that shows secular dancing. I'll wager that even then, men and women were segregated. This was a very conservative culture and there was a strict division between men and women on many levels.

Naturally Daniella knows more about dance than many of us, and I believe she's correct that belly dancing originated in Egypt. However, it is unlikely that it was practiced in ancient Egypt. This was a style of dance most likely brought by the Arabic invaders from the 6th or 7th Century CE.

Quote:
That's a very famous picture because of the front-on faces. It's very rare in Egyptian art


It certainly is unusual. The photo on that website Daniella mentions is published in many books about Egyptology. The frontal pose is sometimes a device used to indicate some kind of importance regarding that individual, though it's not always the case. Sure does grab your attention, though, doesn't it? In the famous Memphis marketplace scene in the tomb of the two hairdressers there's a frontal scene of a man getting a manicure (not 100% frontal--his head is in profile in this case). His name is not given but the glyphs accompanying his "picture" tell us he was a steward, or the overseer of a large estate, someone of clear importance; he is framed to his left by his scribe and to his right by his young servant.
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Daniella
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what is this picture of the hairdressers everbody keeps talking about I'd like to see it
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the hairdo comment made me think of this article
THE MYSTERIOUS MUU
AND THE DANCE THEY DO by Greg Reeder


This is from an article which appeared in the KMT journal. It shows men dancing.

There's an article here about the tomb of the hairdressers:
http://touregypt.net/featurestories/niankhnumt.htm

We discussed them (the hairdressers) here:
http://forum.egyptiandreams.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=814
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Daniella
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, yeah I've seen that before I just wasn't sure of what it was of. I thought homosexuality was common in ancient Egypt, wasn't Akhenaten gay?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daniella wrote:
.... wasn't Akhenaten gay?


I don't think so. At the most bi-sexual I guess Wink He did after all have at least 2 wives (Nefertiti and Kiya) and a concubine (Ipy).

I think you may be referring to a depiction with Akhenaten with someone on his lap, and it looks like they are kissing?
Some thought this was a picture of Akhenaten with Smenkhare, thus alluding to not only homo-sexuality but also incest.
I believe that person is now thought to be Nefertiti, and the imagery shows her as co-regent?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I thought homosexuality was common in ancient Egypt, wasn't Akhenaten gay?


Who knows for sure? The man seemed to do pretty well for himself with the royal ladies. The "gay" angle stems from an old and discarded theory that his lover was Smenkaure and that's why the latter managed to rise to kingship.
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Daniella
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I read on another website that he was bi, but I guess everbody has their own opinion on that topic. Now, sorry for bringing up Akhenaten again but I am attracted to the strange and unusual, but I also read that he was slightly mentally retarded, from the looks of his statues and pictures he looked it. Was this the result of incest or didn't that exist?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKhenaten was not the result of incest. His parents: King Amenhotep III and Queen Tiye were not (closely) related. Tiye was known to be the daughter of Yuya and Tuya (Yuya and Tuya were definitely not related to one another).

Amenhotep III himself was the son of Thutmosis III and Mutemwiya. We don't know for sure where Mutemwiya came from, but again she was not her husband's sister and most likely not closely related to him.

From what I've read there was incest in the beginning of the 18th dynasty and at the end, but the Kings Tutmosis I, II, III and IV as well as the Amenhoteps I, II and II were not the result of incestuous relationships.

I had never heard that Akhenaten was retarded. I really don't believe it either. Smile He was odd and unconventional but I don't see him as retarded at all.
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