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Damage and Restoration
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:19 am    Post subject: Damage and Restoration Reply with quote

Note from Moderator: This topic was split off from KV55 revisited again in the Amarna Forum. Discussion ensued about graffiti on monuments and issues of restoration.


Quote:
It interesting you saying that because I vaguely thought the same thing - until that is I watched them cut limestone into new bricks. It is so brillantly white that its blinding.


You may have watched them quarrying turah limestone, the same sort that was originally used for the casing stones of numerous pyramids. It is dazzlingly white and must of been blinding in the Egyptian sun 4500 years ago. The Egyptians also frequently plastered and/or painted their limestone, giving it a bright-white appearance.
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At Giza you can peer through the smog and see in the distance the Turah hills. Quite a distance from the platau really. Not sure if they are still quarrying there or not.
I did however see them quarrying at Minya - it was a vast area, clouded in thick white dust. The exposed rock was just incredibly bright white. It was being cut into small bricks and throughout Egypt we came across big piles of new bricks, some being used for houses.
There was another quarry in Sinai too.

The Giza pyramids truely must have looked an unforgettable sight in their day - gleaming pink granite, blinding white limestone and perhaps a golden cap. Think then of all the western pyramids together, whole..... wow

Some of the Giza pyramids limestone casing is now in Cairo, reused for their Mosque's.
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
At Giza you can peer through the smog and see in the distance the Turah hills. Quite a distance from the platau really. Not sure if they are still quarrying there or not.


I believe I recently read that the turah limestone is still in fact being quarried, but I don't know for certain.

Quote:
The Giza pyramids truely must have looked an unforgettable sight in their day


I think the whole necropolis must have been spectacular in its own time: the dazzling-white pyramids with their sparkling gold capstones, the large temples and causeways, the dozens upon dozens of mastaba tombs neatly laid out, and nearby the busy village where the priests and support staff resided. Oh, for want of a time machine! faroah

Quote:
Some of the Giza pyramids limestone casing is now in Cairo, reused for their Mosque's.


Cairo was founded around 1000 years ago. Who knows how much of the limestone from the pyramids went into building it? For that matter, we'll never know how much of this limestone was burnt for the process of making the mortar that built Cairo. Mad
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been estimated that 99% of the casing stone from the three pyramids at Giza went into the building of Cairo. Imagine what they'd look like if the casing was still there!
There also was quite a bit of Roman and Greek grafitti on the casing stone, now long-gone. Grafitti was just as big a pox then--several hundred years ago--as it is now.
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Osiris II wrote:
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Imagine what they'd look like if the casing was still there!

Smile Yes, and quite a bit larger too..

What with grafitti on the casing; Belzoni and visitors right up to this year, scribbling on the inside - seems everyone wants to leave their mark on the monuments.
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grafitti seems to be, especially that on monuments, a cry in the wilderness hoping to make a person live forever. (sounds familiar, huh?)
Some of the Roman-Greek grafitti, though, said things like "so-and so- was here and viewed this wonderful thing". Quite different from today's obscenities!
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Some of the Roman-Greek grafitti, though, said things like "so-and so- was here and viewed this wonderful thing". Quite different from today's obscenities!


I picture some Chicago gang-banger perched on the Great Pyramid with his spray paint, "tagging" it for his homies. It is funny how it seems everyone down through history wants everyone else to know that they were in Egypt.

We have in our exhibit at the Field limestone reliefs from the Saqqara tomb of the vizier Bakenrenef. One of the blocks shows him on a throne-like chair, and if you look closely at the brownish red in the paint on Bakenrenef's tummy, you can see someone named Parker scratched his name there--and just to be sure the rest of us knew when, Mr. Parker scratched "1818" right above Bakenrenef's kilt. Someone else named Jeff Something did the same on the vizier's ankle.

Honestly, what drive's some people? It's okay that both the Greeks and the Romans did it as well, because they lived a very long time ago, and that makes their graffiti historic. Wink
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Daniella
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, thats the thing. In a few hundred years someone will look upon the modern grafitti (if it's still there) and say that that is historic.

Everybody wants to leave something behind, to be remembered, I mean I write my name almost everywhere I go. Just kidding, nowadays it would just be cleaned or sanded off.

I don't see the harm in putting your name in a place thats discreet and preferably not on one of the wonders of the ancient world.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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I don't see the harm in putting your name in a place thats discreet and preferably not on one of the wonders of the ancient world.


Remember that Stalone/Snipes movie Demolition Man, the future utopia? I think they have the idea there. Whenever anyone spraypaints something, these little devices pop out of the ground and shoot water at the paint to clean it off. Maybe they should outfit all of the Egyptian monuments with those. Smile
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Daniella
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah they really should.

If anything major happens to any of the monuments would they fix them up to make these attractions last longer or would they just let things happen naturally.
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They would probably be restored, Daniella. A perfect example is the Sphinx. The masssive restoration work just completed is just an on-going thing--it has been restored by the ancient Egyptians, the Romans, the present state of Egypt, and now an effort by the SCA, using the talents and knowledge of Zahi Hawass and Mark Lehner.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we're going to discuss different topics we should start a new thread in the appropriate forum.

I know I'm just as guilty as any (or more Wink ), but rambling threads can be a bit hard to follow.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That reminds me of the time I was visiting this historic two-seater outhouse in Bumbutt, Mississippi, and...

Just kidding, anneke. It is a topic worthy of a thread all its own. The subject of restoration, that is...not the outhouse.
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, anneke! I do ramble a bit!
A thread about restoration would be interesting.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy I think you may ramble the least of all of us Osiris.

I am curious about the history of the restoration of the Sphinx.
I know that Thutmosis IV claims to have dug it out of the sand. What other ancien renovations went on? Did Khaemweset, son of Ramses II, ever do anything w.r.t. the Sphinx. I know he was active on the Giza plateau.


PS: The original topic is locked because I messed up while moderating Rolling Eyes Not a reflection on any of you nice people Very Happy
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