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Pyramids of Giza - any Ancient Egyptian text about them?
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Lost Pharaoh
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:32 pm    Post subject: Pyramids of Giza - any Ancient Egyptian text about them? Reply with quote

I was wondering... Is there any mention of Pyramids of Giza in the hieroglyphic text from later periods of Ancient Egyptian history? Something about them, who build them, what they represent etc.?

I would like references if available.

Regards,
Boris J.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spontaneously and without long searching or thinking, the so called Journal of Merer, probably from the time of the last construction phase of the Pyramid of Chufu ...

Pierre Tallet : LES PAPYRUS DE LA MER ROUGE I - LE JOURNAL DE MERER (PAPYRUS JARF A ET B). - [English and Arabic Translation of the Texts and Summary of the Information]. - Cairo : IFAO, 2017. - [MIFAO 136].

Pierre Tallet / Gregory Marouard : THE HARBOR OF KHUFU ON THE RED SEA COAST AT WADI AL-JARF, EGYPT. - In: NEA 77/1. - 2014. - pp. 4 - 14.

Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An overview of the sources can be found, for example in ...

Christiane M. Zivie : Giza au Deuxième Millénaire. - Cairo : Institut Français d'Archéologie Orientale, 1976. - [Bibliothèque d'Étude 70]. - XII, 358 p., 20 pl.

Quote:
AEB 76.0864 : This is the first part of a thesis (Paris, 1972) devoted to Gîza after the O.K.

In the first chapter the author relates the history of excavations at Gîza and the publications thereon, from the early 19th century until 1972; additions in a post-scriptum on p. XI. Chapter 2 gives a survey of the history of the necropolis until the end of the O.K.

There follow two chapters which i.a. contain the publication of the documents. In chapter 3 those from the F.I.P. to the beginning of the N.K., which are only three monuments. Their publication and discussion is preceded by a sketch of the necropolis in this time, which has been an obscure period. The tombs were mostly covered by desert sands and the buildings used as quarries, some even reused for the poor burials of the local population.

Chapter 4, which constitutes the main part of the book (p. 51-257), contains the catalogue of 99 documents from the N.K., statues, stelae, naoi, reliefs, etc., each carefully described, the texts in printed hieroglyphs with translations and comments. The contents of these documents and the historical implications are discussed in chapter 5. Two main periods for the necropolis can be discerned: one under the reigns of Amenophis II and Tuthmosis IV, the other under Ramses II. The major documents such as the stelae of Amenophis II, those of his sons, and the Sphinx stela of Tuthmosis IV are dealt with. There are also some pages devoted to the activities of May and Kha'emwese. At the end the author remarks that there have not been built larger buildings nor has there been a larger settlement in the area during the N.K.

Chapter 6 deals with the geography and toponyms of Gîza during the N.K. After remarks on the landscape and the administrative position the author argues that Gîza had no specific name. Various toponyms such as xnw n Hr-m-Axt, mrw n Hr-m-Axt, rA-sTAw and inrty appear mostly to indicate special parts of the necropolis.

The last chapter is devoted to the divinities and cults of the N.K., mainly Harmakhis/Hurun (p. 305-328), but also a few others such as Osiris and Hathor.

Bibliography on p. 335-338. Indexes p. 339-352. The plates bear photographs of 21 of the less well known monuments here discussed.

Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christiane M. Zivie : Giza au Premier Millénaire - Autour du Temple d'Isis Dame des Pyramides. - Boston : Museum of Fine Arts, 1991. - XX, 331 p., fig., plans, pl. - ISBN: 0-87846-343-7.

Quote:
AEB 91/10306 : In this book the author has collected all the post-N.K. material from Giza in the 1st millennium B.C. The centrepiece in the study is the temple of Isis, Lady of the Pyramids, a testimony of the continuous occupation of the Giza plateau. The work is organised in three parts. In ch. 1 of Part 1 the author surveys the history of the excavations there. In ch. 2 the origins of the Isis temple are traced down to a core of the funerary chapel of one of the satellites of the Cheops pyramid. There are, however, no traces of Isis in the funerary cult attached to the king in the IVth Dynasty. The cult of Isis developed in the N.K. (ch. 3), as it appears from documents mentioning her, which were found outside the Isis temple (i.a. the sphinx stela of Tuthmosis IV). A number of other documents from the N.K. were found in or near the Isis temple. At the end of the ch. the author attempts to assess the development of the cult of Isis at Giza. The second part is concerned with the T.I.P. In ch. 1 the documentation from Giza mentioning a king Psusennes or contemporaries of him is collected. More evidence comes from the time of king Amenemope, mostly on architectural fragments (ch. 2). The first traces of the Isis temple go back to this XXIst Dynasty, and the cult of Isis with its own clergy was well established. Ch. 3 covers the period from the Libyan XXIInd up to the XXVth Kushite Dynasty. After the presentation of the little evidence found in the temple and some other documents the author sketches the state of the temple at the end of the T.I.P. Part 3 is devoted to the Saite Period and the latest Dynasties, the periods which have yielded the majority of the evidence. After briefly surveying the historical context of the Saite kings and their successors at Memphis and some questions regarding the archaism in the period, the author presents in ch. 1 the principal royal monuments and documents (i.a. graffiti) and assesses the development of the temple of Isis and the activities in the eastern necropolis. Ch. 2 is especially devot ed to the man Harbes, his chapel and his other monuments. This man, living under Psammetichus I, had not only a chapel built on the temple area, but also left a number of objects with his name, mostly statues. This permits to reconstruct the man's career, family and activities. The graffiti from his chapel, mostly still in situ, are presented in ch. 3. Among these the author is able to select a special group of a family of Isis and Harmachis priests, who are dated and whose names and titles are listed. After ch. 4 on the subsidiary chapels and constructions, and architectural fragments, in the temple area the author studies in ch. 5 in detail the question of the XXVIth Dynasty stela (Cairo JE 2091), called the Stela of the Daughter of Cheops or the Inventory stela. It has the historical aspects of the story of a daughter of Cheops as perceived by the XXVIth Dynasty author of the stela, and a religious aspect in sofar as it contains a list of statues of deities. It is a mine of information about the history, topography and cults at Giza and contains a large text concerning the cult of the god Hauron-Harmachis, which is published here in hieroglyphs with translation and notes. The stela reflects the tradition around Cheops. Mme Zivie wonders about the connections between this official view of Cheops' daughter on the stela with the gossip story told in Herodotus about the owner of the Great Pyramid forcing his own daughter to prostitution. The movable objects are collected in ch. 6, mostly stelae, one dedicated to Isis, and others to Osiris of Rosetau, but also statuary and offering tables. In the last ch. 7 the author deals with the burials from the Late Period at Giza, distributed over various cemeteries. A number of the tombs yielded sarcophagi, canopic vases and shabtis.

Conclusion and indexes of personal names, titles and epithets (in transliteration), royal names, divine names and epithets, toponyms, and object inv. nos. added.

Greetings, Lutz.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's also the "Admonitions of Ipuwer" from the 19th century BC which suggests at least some pyramids contained bodies.

There are a few mentions in the Pyramid Texts including utterances 600 and 601 but these aren't what you might expect. I believe there are many more references to them as "mountains" and the like.

There's also a brief mention of what must be G3 on the Palermo Stone;

https://books.google.com/books?id=YYBq-4p70FMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:0RGmHURtLnJl44gjggkcaO&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cladking wrote:
... There's also a brief mention of what must be G3 on the Palermo Stone;

https://books.google.com/books?id=YYBq-4p70FMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:0RGmHURtLnJl44gjggkcaO&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

Where on the Palermo Stone is the Pyramid of Menkaure "mentioned"?

James Henry Breasted : Ancient Records of Egypt. - Chicago : University Press, 1906. - [Volume 1-5 : PDF - 94 MB].
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
cladking wrote:
... There's also a brief mention of what must be G3 on the Palermo Stone;

https://books.google.com/books?id=YYBq-4p70FMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:0RGmHURtLnJl44gjggkcaO&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

Where on the Palermo Stone is the Pyramid of Menkaure "mentioned"?

James Henry Breasted : Ancient Records of Egypt. - Chicago : University Press, 1906. - [Volume 1-5 : PDF - 94 MB].


It's on the middle of pg. 94.

https://books.google.com/books?id=YYBq-4p70FMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:0RGmHURtLnJl44gjggkcaO&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

Opinion as to whether this is G3 or one of the satellite pyramids is divided.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cladking wrote:
cladking wrote:
... There's also a brief mention of what must be G3 on the Palermo Stone;

Lutz wrote:
Where on the Palermo Stone is the Pyramid of Menkaure "mentioned"?

James Henry Breasted : Ancient Records of Egypt. - Chicago : University Press, 1906. - [Volume 1-5 : PDF - 94 MB].

It's on the middle of pg. 94.

https://books.google.com/books?id=YYBq-4p70FMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:0RGmHURtLnJl44gjggkcaO&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

Opinion as to whether this is G3 or one of the satellite pyramids is divided.

On page 94 (in Vol. I of V) begins the description of an inscription from a tomb in Giza, the tomb of Debeh. He was a contemporary of King Menkaure, and was awarded with a tomb in Giza by this king.

But this has certainly nothing to do with the Palermo Stone (pp. 51 - 72) or one of the associated fragments ...
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi both,

Thank you for those resources, they look very useful. I will have problems with those Franch texts because I do not know French, but I will try to figure it out. If you have any more resources about Giza pyramids mentioned in Ancient Egyptian inscriptions it would be very welcomed.

Regards,
Boris J.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lost Pharaoh wrote:
Hi both,

Thank you for those resources, they look very useful. I will have problems with those Franch texts because I do not know French, but I will try to figure it out. If you have any more resources about Giza pyramids mentioned in Ancient Egyptian inscriptions it would be very welcomed.

Regards,
Boris J.


Yeah-- I mentioned elsewhere that one of the interesting things about Egyptology is the number of present-day languages one needs to know to really dig into it... and then of course there's Middle Egyptian, Late Egyptian, Coptic, Akkadian, Hittite, Hebrew... Shocked I ran out of materials in English on a couple of topics and have started into German-- fortunately I've learned a little and am picking it up relatively well, though with frequent reference to a dictionary.

(Coincidentally, Srpski is one of the languages I know a bit of as well, though I'm very rusty in it now. Ja sam bio u Beogradu u 1994 g.... was working in the U.S. Embassy and didn't get to travel a whole lot but very much enjoyed the art museum off Trg Respublika and of course Kalemegdan.... and I remember fondly a little shop on (Sarajevska?) where I would buy a nice warm loaf of fresh-baked bread every morning.
Amerikanci were very rare around there at the time, and I was usually mistaken for German, I recall!)
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:10 pm    Post subject: Chufu Reply with quote

What evidence do we have that Chufu was buried at Giza. Were the Pharoahs not buried in the valley? They found no mummy of Chufu and some folks say that the granite coffin is not a coffin, but something else unknown. Having read the memoirs of Dr Hakim Awyan, a man who lived his life from childhood in the band of peace, I cannot help but speculate.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Saqqara Reply with quote

Sitamun32 wrote:
Hi all. I've been looking at photographs of the recently discovered tomb at Saqqara. Fascinating. Cult of Seth comes to mind. Has anybody translated the glyphs in full yet?

Please pay attention to the topic of threads!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Chufu Reply with quote

Sitamun32 wrote:
... They found no mummy of Chufu and some folks say that the granite coffin is not a coffin, but something else unknown. ...

Nice for these "some folks" ... whoever that may be. And, where are there evidence for their claims?

Sitamun32 wrote:
... Having read the memoirs of Dr Hakim Awyan, a man who lived his life from childhood in the band of peace, I cannot help but speculate.


"Anti-gravity Used to Build Pyramids - Abd'el Hakim Awyan"

"Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Announcements -> Reincarnation, Spacemen, Fringe Theories, At-lantis, etc..."
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Montuhotep88 wrote:
(Coincidentally, Srpski is one of the languages I know a bit of as well, though I'm very rusty in it now. Ja sam bio u Beogradu u 1994 g.... was working in the U.S. Embassy and didn't get to travel a whole lot but very much enjoyed the art museum off Trg Respublika and of course Kalemegdan.... and I remember fondly a little shop on (Sarajevska?) where I would buy a nice warm loaf of fresh-baked bread every morning.
Amerikanci were very rare around there at the time, and I was usually mistaken for German, I recall!)


I am glad to hear that. It is nice that you have good memories about Serbia, and your Serbian is good. Se have the best food in the world Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another source, not in French, written in German ... Cool (And in the inventory of my private library.)

Dietrich Wildung : Die Rolle ägyptischer Könige im Bewusstsein ihrer Nachwelt I - Posthume Quellen über die Könige der ersten vier Dynastien. - Berlin : Verlag Bruno Hessling, 1969. - IX, 270 p., 17 pl., 1 folding table. - [Münchner Ägyptologische Studien 17]. - König Ḫwfw (Cheops) : pp. 152 - 192.
Quote:
AEB 69.0676 : The records of the kings of the first four dynasties are ordered in two ways: the kings in the order in which they came into office, and the evidence for each individual king in succession. This gives an accurate picture of the importance of the individual king for posterity. The documents are inquired about credibility and tendencies.

Since in the cyclical thinking of the Egyptians the person of the respective incumbent withdraws behind the institution of the kingdom, it must be designated as an exception, if a king lives on by name in the memory of posterity. This can have different reasons:

1. The continuation or resumption of his cult of the dead by a privileged priesthood whose own economic interest lies in nominally continuing the ancient cult.

2. The proclamation of the divinity of a ruler for political purposes in the border areas (Snofru in Sinai).

3. The role of mediator between God and man as the patron god of his necropolis or a reorganization of the reorganization that leads him to continue his memory of the respective place.

4. The intention of ascribing the greatest possible age to a literary, medical or religious text by dating into the reign of a particular king.

All the evidence together is the very sparse historical information: hints about deeds and achievements of the deceased rulers are hard to find - as well as a summary and judgmental historiography in Egypt has no tradition.

Greetings, Lutz.
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