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Anyone know the Etymologies of r3 "mouth" and Tap

 
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yandiel
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:22 pm    Post subject: Anyone know the Etymologies of r3 "mouth" and Tap Reply with quote

In my obsession with finding cognates of some ancient Egyptian words, these two words probably gives me the most headaches. There doesn't seem to be any cognates in Semitic, at least obvious ones, so we either have to contend with an external borrowing or an internal innovation. Here's the only information I can find on these words and my opinion, please correct me if I'm wrong:

1. r3 "mouth"
* No obvious Semitic cognates
* Proto-Afro-Asiatic: rV?-/rVw- "speak"
* Indo-European: rei- to cry, scream (rey- onomatopeic to resound)
* Niger-Congo Yoruba: ró "roaring"
* My opinion: There is no etymology because r3 may be an internal innovation of some kind possibly onomatopeic in nature.

2. Tap "head"
* No obvious Semitic cognates
* Scholars are divided as to a Proto-Egyptian root either claiming an original "kap" or original "dap". It's mostly agreed upon that Ancient Egyptian palatals arose from innovative palatalization due to consonant clashes or the palatal arose from a foreign sound not found in Egyptian and it's closest consonant was a palatal.
* There are two African cognates, tep "to wear a cap", and a possible Proto-Omotic to- "head". Though neither of these two words explain why there's a palatal in Egyptian.
* External borrowing. Indo-European: káp-ut "head, bowl". This Indo-European root was extremely popular leading to the Latinized versions, Italian "capo", Romanian "cap" and even found outside Latin, Greek "kefáli", Turkish "kafa". This root would explain the Egyptian palatalization. Could this ancient Egyptian word be of Indo-European origins?

What do you guys think?
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Montuhotep88
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not an expert here, but in general terms I would be very skeptical of any posited Indo-European connection, as IIRC the first known Indo-European language groups of which there is any record of contact with Egyptian civilization dates to the Second Intermediate Period and later (Hurrians and Hittites), and I doubt that words for "mouth" and "head" wouldn't have existed already (as I think there is ample inscriptional evidence for their use well before that).

I'd tend to think you're more on the right track looking at their closer neighbors (Semitic and African language groups).
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yandiel
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Montuhotep88 wrote:
Not an expert here, but in general terms I would be very skeptical of any posited Indo-European connection, as IIRC the first known Indo-European language groups of which there is any record of contact with Egyptian civilization dates to the Second Intermediate Period and later (Hurrians and Hittites), and I doubt that words for "mouth" and "head" wouldn't have existed already (as I think there is ample inscriptional evidence for their use well before that).

I'd tend to think you're more on the right track looking at their closer neighbors (Semitic and African language groups).


Thank you for your response. I was aware of of the unusual connection there with the term "head". I have tried to find cognates of the more obscured Egyptian roots which not much information is out there on, for example these two words above. I do agree with you on a Indo-European borrowings in Proto-Egyptian and it being far fetched. If the Indo-European word "káp-ut" was borrowed you'd think it would be in Hittite, Hurian or Sumerian and it is not in these languages either. I'll keep looking for more information around.
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