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controversial Considerations
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maat
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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

8. My consideration about the Imiut (Anubis) fetish object.
Two Anubis fetish objects were found in the burial chamber of Tutankhamun each at a corner of the west wall.
Each object represents an empty animal skin that is tied to hang on a post. A wire is coiled around the post to hold the skin. The post stands vertically in a base. The post is terminated at top by a closed lotus bud form. Why?

The fetish object conceptually reprents a 'black box' reference that indicates a known input, a middle segment (stage or process such as for example occurs unseen inside the skin of an animal or stalk of a plant), and a result (represented by a lotus bud).

The object can be recognized to synbolize a concept. Something goes into a known or unknown (thing, process, place), and potentially has a result. The lotus bud is only a 'potential' flower.
The objects inform that something goes in and something potentially comes out. Whatever occurs in the middle is context specific in similar sense that what occurs in a lotus plant is contextually different than what occurs inside an animal.

The reference is given in the tomb and how it is applicable must be considered and determined.
Such a reference would be lost if displaced or separated from its original context in the tomb. Objects (royal and official) are not of equal value in a private collection or museum if original context is lost. Any lost piece is the loss of some ability to understand the full ancient design. Hieroglyphs are only part of a greater design to inform.

Objects in the tomb are complexly informative elements. They are not decorative or memorabilia. Ideally, they should be heavily documented and kept together when possible.
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite most general descriptions that the skin was stuffed, I noted the Anubis fetish represents an empty animal skin (because I think the 'stuffing' is non-specific, insignificant and only to suggest a conceptual volume such as an empty space into which something might enter).

If I am mistaken, was there specific or specifically required content to be stuffed into the skins?

Also, if Isis used the Imiut fetish to hide Horus, does that not inform that the object has a characteristic for things inside it to be hidden?
Does this not suggest that like a 'black box' construct, what goes in and exits are known while what occurs inside is hidden or obscured?
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

9. The three nested coffins of Tutankhamun represent three women.

The construct of three nested coffins represents the maternal lineage of successive births that produced Tutankhamun.
The inner coffin of gold in the construct represents his mother. The mummy has no coffin as the construct represents the king inside his mother, like a foetus inside its mother. The facial image of the gold mask inside the gold coffin is the face of the king's mother.
The gold coffin is inside its mother (the middle coffin) and the outer coffin represents the mother from which the second was born.

The coffins represent the maternal line to Tutannkhamun and the proper person (mummy) of the manly king could not respectably be placed to be found inside his mother, coddled like a foetus. So, the mummy is a servant who represents the king in the construct.

The gold coffin honors the mother of Tutankhamun (and as such equally honors his father).
In any case, the coffins represent mothers and the mummy (a servant) represents the king in his mother(s).
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

10. Tutankhamun's nested coffins construct informs that Tiye gave birth to Nefertiti. Neffrtiti gave birth to Meritaten then Meritaten gave birth to Tutankhamun . Yet, the mummy in the crypt is a servant of the king to represent the king in a depiction that could make the king appear weak (coddled in his mother even in death?).

How is the Younger Lady in KV35(JC) royal if DNA finds she is the mother of a servant figure in KV62 who is not the king?

To show even a sibling of the king from the same mother in such a weak depiction would associate the king with the appearance of weakness. YL is not royal (not mother of a king). The KV62 mummy is not a king and YL is not mother of a king.
Still, KV35(JC) is relevant.
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The body in KV62 though is the grandson of Tiye and Amenhotep III. The body identified as Tiye is the daughter of Yuya and Thuya, who were found in a nearly intact tomb, and who are named as the queenís parents on numerous inscriptions. So the body in KV62 is undisputably from the royal family. As heís called Tutankhamun or Tutankhaten on all of the effects in the tomb including items on his body I donít doubt heís the king. What we donít know for certain is who KV55 and KV35YL are, except that the former was interred with items naming Akhenaten, and the latter is one of his full sisters. As Amenhotep III and Tiye were not closely related itís not possible for another generation to be sandwiched in. Just not possible. How do you account for all of the supposed imposters implied by your theory? And what happened to all of the real kings and queens bodies?
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KV62, yes, it's Tut: parents were KV55 (Smenkhare) and KV35YL (Meritaten)
KV21A = Ankhesenamun. KV21B = Nefertiti
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

karnsculpture wrote:
The body in KV62 though is the grandson of Tiye and Amenhotep III. The body identified as Tiye is the daughter of Yuya and Thuya, who were found in a nearly intact tomb, and who are named as the queen?s parents on numerous inscriptions. So the body in KV62 is undisputably from the royal family. As he?s called Tutankhamun or Tutankhaten on all of the effects in the tomb including items on his body I don?t doubt he?s the king. What we don?t know for certain is who KV55 and KV35YL are, except that the former was interred with items naming Akhenaten, and the latter is one of his full sisters. As Amenhotep III and Tiye were not closely related it?s not possible for another generation to be sandwiched in. Just not possible. How do you account for all of the supposed imposters implied by your theory? And what happened to all of the real kings and queens bodies?

The servants or subjects of the king are not imposters. They are who they are. It seems inappropriate to enter a house, mistake a servant for the master of the house then to call the servant an imposter.
Consider that names on postal boxes today do not guarantee that the first person encountered at the front door is the one whose name is on the mail. The name of the king is where it is found in his house. The king can have his subject represent him even in death. Still, the mummy found in KV62 is not the king. He is a servant. As for the king, he is undisturbed. As for KV35, I think KV62 also teaches how to find them as well. I haven't delved much into KV35 except in having found it relates to inform about some aspects of KV62.
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

irt-akhu wrote:
KV62, yes, it's Tut: parents were KV55 (Smenkhare) and KV35YL (Meritaten)
KV21A = Ankhesenamun. KV21B = Nefertiti

Interesting and who is Meritaten's father? Sisters?
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

11. Would I be understood if I recommend that people should 'read the tomb'?
I think the construct of nested coffins demonstrates that all information contained in the tomb to be communicated was not written hieroglyphically. The construct of coffins had to be observed and considered for what they were designed to communicate.
To 'read the tomb' is complex because each element can possibly apply to multiple contexts to inform about different things or aspects. The information that is 'read' might be sensitive to the immediate context or to a broader context. It is sometimes both.
The ancient designers did not make the tomb space for potential malevolent actors to enter and find obvious directions like 'The Sensitive Goods Are In Here'.
Hieroglyphs are fundamentally important but there is more to read beyond hieroglyphs.
Everything in the tomb speaks to communicate some information. The great emphasis to rely on written texts is greater today than in preliterary civilizations where spoken or symbolic constructs were used to communicate by narratives. People told or otherwise demonstrated stories that informed.
Three nested coffins might tell a history better than a room of papyrus text, stacked floor to ceiling.
You cannot know by written text what is not written in text to be known.
We should also learn to read the tombs.
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

irt-akhu wrote:
KV62, yes, it's Tut: parents were KV55 (Smenkhare) and KV35YL (Meritaten)
KV21A = Ankhesenamun. KV21B = Nefertiti

Why does the Younger Lady in KV35 have a gaping hole in left side of her face?
The Elder Lady's face is intact (and in excellent codition - just gorgeous - for a woman over 2000 years).
EL doesn't look a day over 200 by which time most corpses are already falling apart.

But seriously, why does YL's face have a hole and EL does not? EL says to think.
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maat wrote:
irt-akhu wrote:
KV62, yes, it's Tut: parents were KV55 (Smenkhare) and KV35YL (Meritaten)
KV21A = Ankhesenamun. KV21B = Nefertiti

Why does the Younger Lady in KV35 have a gaping hole in left side of her face?
The Elder Lady's face is intact (and in excellent codition - just gorgeous - for a woman over 2000 years).
EL doesn't look a day over 200 by which time most corpses are already falling apart.

But seriously, why does YL's face have a hole and EL does not? EL says to think.

Because she had been either kicked in the face by a horse, or hit in the face with a sword or axe, while she was still alive. The scans and forensic tests show that no bandages or packing materials had been driven into the wound, which would be the case if the wound was caused by robbery. This can be seen in the damage done to the boy, who had the top of his head bashed in and damage to his thorax, as happened also to the YL and queen Tiye. There was packing material in her facial wound, but undisturbed. This is one of those things that leaves the door wide open for any number of scenarios for her death, a simple accident, or assassination, and if so, by who and why, and it's tempting to imagine a desperate situation occuring at the end of Akhenaten's reign as it's far more interesting that just getting kicked by a horse.
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In response to Ikon:
The speculations you note involve that YL might have been kicked by a horse in her thorax or struck with a weapon such as an axe or sword to her head and face?
You note the boy also has damage to his head and thorax as also EL but EL's facial damage was packed to suggest her damage was post mortem?
Also out in the world is consideration that the YL mummy was damaged by tomb robbers or chariot accident.
I accept that all considerations are valid if a person honestly thinks to find what is true.

It seems to me that royal security must have had a very bad day(s) to have let the queen (Great Royal Wife) of Amenhotep III, mother of Akhenaten and also the mother of Akhenaten's only heir suffer injury or attack. I imagine the two kings would have been a little angry that horses weren't managed and attackers got to their queens. Nefertiti must have felt exposed and must have lost her mind in rage if it was her daughter. Then, the embalmers treated the bodies so poorly that today, we see gross damage that a good butcher would have tried to conceal to make a carcass look more presentable.

These are supposed royals in the highest positions. How they died might be questioned. That bodies were poorly treated is inconceivable and informs that we are looking at something other than royal corpses. That damage to the mummies is so similarly located strongly suggests an artificial construct. All three have thoracic damage and damaged skulls? The mummy in KV62 also has thoracic damage and a strange fill in his skull. They cannot all have been so unlucky with horses and chariots. As for attacks on the queen, to attack the king directly seems a better gamble because queens might have been in weaker positions to respond.
So, I ask, why does YL have a gaping hole in left side of her face?
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Ikon:
Excuse me.
I responded that you noted YL was kicked by a horse in her thorax when you in fact noted she might have been kicked in her face.
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't say that the YL was kicked in the thorax by a horse, only that like the boy and Tiye she also had damage to her thorax, which will have been caused by robbers.

Tiye does not have any facial damage, only the YL, and that the wound has been packed shows that it occurred before death. If robbers had hacked into her face, why would they then pack out the wound, and in the impossible event that they did, why not also repair the damage to her thorax, top of head and ripped off right arm, and the damage to the other two mummies.

Nobody has suggested that the YL had a chariot accident, that idea has been suggested for Tutankhamun due to his fractured legs. The injury to the YL is not a blow caused by falling, but by direct force, a horse's hoof or weapon. The boy probably died due to a fall because he has a fully dislocated right femur head and severe injuries to his pelvis.

As an additional note, attention is paid to the wound to the YL, but the forensic examination of the boy in 2003 threw up a mystery. The hole to his upper left chest was caused by an axe or something similar, but the mummified skin had then been pulled back. Mummified skin is very fragile and would break into pieces when treated like this. What the forensic team suggest is that this injury was made very soon after mummification, or even while still undergoing the process. This raises the prospects of a serious breakdown in authority with royal mummies attacked while "still warm" in their tomb, or not yet buried.
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ikon wrote:
I didn't say that the YL was kicked in the thorax by a horse, only that like the boy and Tiye she also had damage to her thorax, which will have been caused by robbers.

I agree and offered my apology for having noted in error that you did. I think you mistook my apology.
Also, thank you for clarifying the damage to each mummy. It was unclear to me earlier if you meant that EL had facial damage that I did not know.

Quote:

Tiye does not have any facial damage, only the YL, and that the wound has been packed shows that it occurred before death. If robbers had hacked into her face, why would they then pack out the wound, and in the impossible event that they did, why not also repair the damage to her thorax, top of head and ripped off right arm, and the damage to the other two mummies.

I agree that Tiye has no facial damage. I disagree that packing YL's wound was done while alive although it is possible. As you note about the boy's chest damage, work can have been done on the body after death and before mummification was completed or shortly after. This is no surprise to me. (Clinical experiment with mummification has found the skin to still be pliable for a time after dessication. I saw a documentary decades ago.)
EL is only a constructed reference to be regarded 'as if' Tiye. EL in a sense works to answer for Tiye so Tiye will not be in that position. It is a construct. I vill try to explain.

Quote:
Nobody has suggested that the YL had a chariot accident, that idea has been suggested for Tutankhamun due to his fractured legs. The injury to the YL is not a blow caused by falling, but by direct force, a horse's hoof or weapon. The boy probably died due to a fall because he has a fully dislocated right femur head and severe injuries to his pelvis.

Speculation that YL might have had a chariot accident exists as such things do. All considerations are not from official sources.
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