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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

39. Captives on Sticks as Servants with Sticks

Among items found in the antechamber by Howard Carter were four sticks (crooked with hook-like curve) with bound captives composed on each stick.
[Carter no. 048-1]

Carter noted that three of the four sticks, Carter nos. 048(a), 048(b) and 048(c), were tied (and effectively grouped) together with a light cloth.

[ http://www.griffith.ox.ac.uk/gri/carter/048a.html ]
[ http://www.griffith.ox.ac.uk/gri/carter/048b.html ]
[ http://www.griffith.ox.ac.uk/gri/carter/048c.html ]

The three sticks were on bed of the lion couch (Carter no. 048).
Each stick bears the carved figure of a bound African captive.

Of the three figures, 048(a) was found intact by Carter.

Carter notes that one arm of the figure 048(b) was found detached in debris on floor of the antechamber.

He then notes that one leg of figure 048(c) also in debris was found on floor of the chamber.

I think it is general knowledge today that Carter attributed to robbery of the tomb conditions such as supposed debris on floors of the tomb.

I disagree with the assessment that the tomb had ever been robbed and assert that it was filled with constructed references to inform and guide that were mistaken to be signs of robbery.

Captive Figures In A Constructed Reference

The captive figures appear as carved on sticks.
It seems informative to me that one captive figure has a severed (separated) arm and a second captive figure has a separated leg both equally in the same context of location where they were found.

These two (damaged?) captive figures symbolically tied together with a third figure by light cloth must also be considered within context of the male figure that was painted on the section of south wall of the burial chamber that Carter had to demolish to open that chamber.

Figures Transform

The captive figures were not simply apparent on their sticks. They (conceptually) were the sticks that were in process of transformation while moving towards the burial chamber.

The sticks in one of several aspects were evolving into servant figures that appear in the burial chamber holding their straight staves.

Their staves later appear straight because the earlier crook forms is to symbolize (in one aspect) that the human forms are dynamically emerging from their sticks.

As noted earlier in this thread, one of those figures appears to stand before the goddess Nut at center scene in mural on the north wall of the burial chamber.

A second figure in similar scene on the south wall was broken by Carter's necessary demolition.

Captive figures in the antechamber emerged from sticks and both figures in painted murals held sticks.

Two figures on sticks were damaged (had severed limbs) and the figure on south wall was broken by Carter.

The only figures with sticks and damage in reference in the tomb are identifiable as captive servants.

The damaged mummy in the gold coffin is indicated by these references to be a captive servant.

The carved captive figures can be related to painted figures in the burial chamber as one damaged on south wall, one intact on north wall, and one broken in the gold coffin. This of course is a very simplified explanation.

Relates to KV35(J-c)

The three sticks with captive figures in tomb of Tutankhamun seem also to relate to the mummy figures and constructed reference in KV35(J-c) where an arm attributed to belong to the mummy commonly known as the younger lady was found on floor of that chamber in that tomb.

An arm of the captive figure, Carter no. 048(b), was found on floor of the antechamber in the tomb of Tutankhamun (KV62).

The arm on the floor by this reference generally can be regarded to indicate a captive or servant figure.

The reference of three captive figures (carved sticks) laid on bed of the Lion Couch in the tomb of Tutankhamun seems also apparently similar to the constructed reference with three mummies that were laid together in the chamber KV35(J-c).

Figures in Service

Again, details and explanation here are minimized and simplified for brevity.

I think these brief notes begin to expose that the involved mummy figures are servant figures that are in service to answer for the king (royal figures).

The arm and leg from two carved figures on floor of the chamber were not randomly deposited by robbers. Their presence on the floor was an informative reference.

The mummified arm on floor in KV35(J-c) was also an informative reference.

The mummies EL, YL, the boy, and the Tutankhamun mummy are not royal.

While DNA might inform that YL and the Tutankhamun mummy are related, these references and others inform that the related figures are not royal.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

40. Bust of Nefertiti (Try This Experiment)

This deviates from the general line of his thread to the bust of Nefertiti but I was not sure that it would be better as a separate topic.

The bust of Nefertiti has one (right) eye.
Its left eye was never installed.
Why? It is an informative reference for guidance.

Try the following experiment (optimally with a mobile phone with a screen).

Use the photographic image taken of the top of the crown of the bust of Nefertiti.
[ http://www.egyptian-museum-berlin.com/c53.php ]

Use a mobile telephone handset to view the image because the handset easy to move, tilt, rotate and pan side to side. Otherwise, the observer has to move around to gain advantageous perspective.

Hold the image in front of you at what you feel is a comfortable viewing distance but not too close because you are not yet looking to see small details.

Try different magnifications if you want.

Hold the image at chest level or height as if to look slightly downward onto top of the crown.

The center line on the crown is a reference to assist perspective or to help guide orientation.

The Experiment

Tilt the top of the frame (image) towards you until the image is a wash of white or until you cannot see the image of the bust.

Then, very slowly, tilt the frame upward to gradually bring the image into view and continue to tilt the top away from you.

Observe the image as you tilt it.

Pan (turn) the frame slightly to left or right and repeat the steps above.

Observe in left part of the frame as you tilt.

Ir opens as the frame is tilted.

Next Try

Rotate the frame 90 degrees of angle to left.

Slowly pan to extreme left such that you are looking at the frame from the left side.
Then, slowly pan back to center.

Also try the same pan and view to look at the image from the right side of the frame and slowly pan back to center.

Next Try

Rotate the image to each 90 degree position (even to have the image upside down) and repeat the above steps at each position.

In the upside-down position also observe the back of the bust from very acute side angles.

Adjust the view by tilting or rotating at your leisure.

An Instructive Reference

I obviously cannot tell you what to see as it might bias your perception but I think this experiment might help to understand the missing eye of the bust.

The bust seems to me to have been a teaching tool..

I had posted somewhere in a topic in this forum that the bust by elements that represent hieroglyphs informs to 'see all lords'

I think the bust as an instructive device was made to teach and guide the observer in how that directive might be achieved.

Lutz had found a source reference and informed me that the Gardiner symbols I gave for reference relate to an epithet of the king (not 'see all lords' as I simply understood the symbols).

I think the symbolism is ambiguous and that both readings are correct.

In either case, the recommended experimentation might help an observer to see what is at hand with the bust.

A dark room for viewing might be helpful.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maat wrote:
39. Captives on Sticks as Servants with Sticks

Among items found in the antechamber by Howard Carter were four sticks (crooked with hook-like curve) with bound captives composed on each stick.
[Carter no. 048-1]

Carter noted that three of the four sticks, Carter nos. 048(a), 048(b) and 048(c), were tied (and effectively grouped) together with a light cloth.

[ http://www.griffith.ox.ac.uk/gri/carter/048a.html ]
[ http://www.griffith.ox.ac.uk/gri/carter/048b.html ]
[ http://www.griffith.ox.ac.uk/gri/carter/048c.html ]

The three sticks were on bed of the lion couch (Carter no. 048).
...


Please note the following corrections to my earlier post that is partly quoted above..

I misidentified the lion couch with Carter no. 048.
The lion couch is correctly designated as Carter no. 035.

The referenced sticks are grouped within the set of objects that are collectively and accurately designated as Carter no. 048.

The group with sticks were on an ebony bed (Carter no. 047) that was on the lion couch (Carter no. 035).

I had meant to indicate that the sticks were effectively on the lion couch but inaccurately represented that the sticks were directly on the lion couch.

The sticks more accurately were on the bed (Carter no. 047) that was on the lion couch (Carter no. 035).

Sorry for the confusion.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

41. An Amarna Composition (Also Try This)

Follow the suggested guidance in the preceding post ("40. Bust of Nefertiti").

You might find interesting to isolate and generally apply that guidance to the image that has Akhenaten standing in rays of the Aten.

[ https://ancientegyptonline.co.uk/amarnareligion/ ]

Initially hold the image at arm's length and approximately at chest height

Experiment to view the composition by slow rotation of the image to left (anti-clockward).
Continue the rotation to be fully circular.

Observe the full frame the image while it is rotated.

View the full frame and do not initially magnify to see only a part of the image.
Such viewing of parts can be tried later.

Play with adjustment of view angles while you rotate the frame.

Extra Attention

I recommend to be extra attentive when the image is at approximately 45 degrees of angle during leftward rotation (when two diagonally opposite corners of the frame are aligned with the vertical axis).

Again, continue to tilt and pan to adjust the view as you might need.

I think some people will find this very interesting.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some ancient Egyptian compositions separately or simultaneously can involve anamorphosis and multistable images..

This can make difficult the ability to discern some content.
Yet, the use of anamorphsis and multistable images beneficially can allow more content and content with technical complexity to be densely included in a given space.

For example, a sequence of images that show a gradually open its eyes, turn its head or somehow show movement.

In some instances, an observer might isolate and perceive one of several possible images in a multistable composition and miss that the composition contains more.

I am not a psychologist but do not think that most people seek to find how many different things one image can represent after their first perception.

Yet, to observe the possibilities in multistable images requires the observer to reconsider an image after each perception is already formed.

People should gain familiarity with concepts of multistable images and anamorphosis because such familiarity can help to perceive some content in ancient Egyptian compositions that can be easily missed.

There is more to perceive than is initially apparent in many works of ancient Egypt but the observer today in a sense has to learn to think like an ancient Egyptian because the average person today does not think to see a thing in several different modes that yield different perceptions.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maat wrote:
41. An Amarna Composition (Also Try This)

Follow the suggested guidance in the preceding post ("40. Bust of Nefertiti").

You might find interesting to isolate and generally apply that guidance to the image that has Akhenaten standing in rays of the Aten.

[ https://ancientegyptonline.co.uk/amarnareligion/ ]
...


A different photograph of the same image ("Pharaoh Akhenaten and his family adoring the Aten.") taken at different angles, distance and apparently different light conditions yields other subtleties in the composition.

This second image is accessible at time of this post on the Wikipedia.org website
( https://en,m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atenism ).

First with this image, try to tilt top of the frame away from you until the image cannot be seen then observe it while you very slowly tilt the frame back to upright position (and continue beyond the ability to see it).

Next, the other recommended guidance to rotatee the frame can be tried.

The observable differences that the two images produce show how different perspectives, distance and light quality can dramatically affect the ability to perceive some details in these kinds of intricately subtle compositions.

Too much or not enough of one color or other might obscure some details.
Too much brightness might as glare overwhelm some details.
Dim light in some instances can make some details more visible.

Ht is therefore necessary to experiment with different photo qualities to find most favorable options to observe content a composition.

Some details can be suppressed by adjustmemt of perspectives or light while the same adjustment enhances other details to be seen.

My understanding is that this can make possible to include simultaneous images that would be in conflict if normal rendering techniques were used.

Optical scientists can better asses the matter. Perhaps they can inform how to better access the content in such compositions.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

42. Anamorphosis and the Royal Crook

I introduced the relationship of the royal crook to geometric rays in the topic "Functionality Of The Royal Crook Introduced".

I think (but have not tested) that the royal crook (Carter no. 269(h) for example) has functional purpose that can be related to anamorphic images.

The royal crook effectively records and represents a set of geometric rays in relatively fixed positions.

Various symbolic representations of the Aten also similarly present each a set of geometric rays in fixed relative positions.

The sets of rays inherently include the angles between rays.

Such angles in the royal crook might have been used as reference parameters to create and to observe anamorphic images in various compositions..

Such a record of angles would hypothetically provide a standard reference by which to know specific angles of perspective that should be used to find and view images in certain anamorphic compositions.

Such reference of angles could eliminate random guessing and searching about at which angles of perspective anamorphic images will likely be found and seen in a composition.

This consideration about the royal crook as possibly related to anamorphic images is not yet tested but seems possible.

Two royal crooks, Carter nos. 269(d) and 269(h), were found in context of the Treasury chamber in tomb of Tutankhamun where I note images were composed on the ceiling..

In box with the royal crooks was a mirror case that I have explained is reference to a mirror that could have been used to view the ceiling in the Treasury.

These references together could be regarded to pertain to viewing of anamorphic images in context of the Treasury..
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

43. Queen Tiye's Shortened Toes

This note returns to the three nested coffins of Tutankhamun.

It is a further consideration about the largest and outermost coffin that had its toe section cut short for the granite lid of the sarcophagus to fit close.

The outermost coffin represents queen Tiye as was earlier explained in this thread.

The truncated toe section of the wooden coffin can be regarded to indicate a figure of great status whose image in reference is forcibly fitted into a smaller or lesser construct than it properly deserves.

This consideration suggests a constructed reference that represents queen Tiye as a person who has greater royal status than to be in the sarcophagus of the relatively lesser Tutankhamun.

The coffin with its truncated toe section represents the great queen whose royal status and stature exceed the context in which she is referenced.

This can be understood to inform that the tomb is not properly the tomb of Tiye or of a person who has a status that could befit or comfortably accommodate the greatnes of Tiye.

It is a representation of Tiye forced to fit into a tomb that is lesser than her greatness.

The truncated toe section of the outermost coffin in this consideration is a constructed reference that is informative to the observer and also honorific to queen Tiye.

The cut toe section is not an error of failure to accurately measure or prepare the tomb as has long been deemed since Carter discovered it.

This seems to me related in some sense to be a negative affirmation in that Tiye is shown to be greater by truncating the toe section of the coffin.

It effectively expresses that queen Tiye is greater than this context.

This seems to fit with information that Tiye is in a chamber with Meritaten.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maat wrote:
The Hathor Implication

The constructed reference of a procession in the tomb relates the Sem priest to be Hathor.

Relation of the priest to Hathor (in the tomb of Tutankhamun) explains why the Sem priest (does not approach a woman) and (does not eat young or small cattle).
Young cattle are as children of Hathor (the cow).

The Sem priest that performs the opening of the mouth ceremony does not approach a woman and does not eat small young or small cattle.

This made no sense when I first read the proscription but it now makes sense in the tomb of Tutankhamun.

The procession in the north mural complexly goes through a series of references.
The north wall transitions are many and not noted here.
...


I avoided to note earlier in the quoted post about movement of the procession through the remaining positions in the north wall mural but must note the following because I asserted that the red "X" on the mummy in the north wall mural is a reference to the goddess Neith.

I initially noted in the topic (Tombs and Monuments > "KV62 West Wall Niche Question") that the X mummy is the goddess Neith but the reference is certainly more complex in what it represents.

I maintain here that the red "X "on the mummy figure in fact indicates the goddess.

The constructed reference of a procession in the tomb supports this identification of Neith in the north wall's instance of the procession.

The four goddesses

The four goddesses that surrounded the canopic shrine in the Treasury return into the lead group of the procession in the north wall mural in the burial chamber.

Neith whose symbol is a pair of crossed arrows is indicated and identified by the red X that appears on the mummy in the mural.

The red X in the mural is mistaken and confused to be a cloth embellishment.
In the north wall mural in Tutankhamun's tomb, the red "X" is a pair of crossed, pointless and flightless arrows, a symbol of the goddess Neith.

From the red "X" is extended a pointed arrow that is concealed in the mural to be rendered by the observer. I had explained the arrows and how the hidden one is rendered.

These references represent and indicate Neith.

Where Are The Other Goddesses?

Neith in myth is the mother of the goddess Selket (also known as Serket).
[Wikipedia > Serket]

She is also the mother of a number other deities
[Wikipedia > Neith (goddess)]

The "X" mummy in the north wall mural is a pregnant figure.
The goddess Selket is inside Neith (as are many other gods in concept of the constructed reference).

This construction of many deities in one form is a different manifestation of the leading group of five bearers in the east wall mural that represents the ancestors of the deceased. The ancestors are gods and joined with the gods.

In the Treasury, the constructed reference of 'many gods in one form' is represented by the black jackal upon the Anubis shrine. The jackal represents Anubis, Wepwawep and Duamutef.

The "X" mummy in the north wall mural is the unity of deities and the red "X" on the mummy indicates that the goddess Neith is expressed.
Selket is inside Neith.

The representation is a complex of deities.

The "X" mummy also represents Osiris as is commonly recognized.

Against the legs of the (X-mummy / Neith / Osiris) figure sits the obscure figure of a hooded female who represents Isis. She is best seen in the mural from a distance.

Isis in myth is of course the mother of Horus, the son of Osiris.

It is the hands and arms of Horus that reach out from behind the "X" mummy.

The arms wear bracelets like those found (later) with the burnished gold hands that held the crook and flail in the gold coffin of Tutankhamun.

The hands that reach out in the mural are with the "X" mummy but do not belong to the mummy as also the gold hands in the gold coffin are not hands of the mummy..

They are the hands of Horus.

Observe that the hands are next to the pregnant belly of the "X" mummy because Horus is the consort of Selket. The god and goddess are together in this context.

So, (Neith, Selket and Isis) three of the four goddesses are in the scene.
Osiris and Horus are there.

The two male figures that appear to greet Osiris are ambiguous.

They were the two black statues in the antechamber.
They are also the gods Iaqs and Hemwy.
They are not Tutankhamun whose place is between them.

Where is the fourth goddess Nepththys from the canopic shrine?

She is represented by the figure with yellow hands that was in the niche of the north wall.

The four goddesses are there all in the north wall (left / west scene).

The red "X" on the mummy indicates the goddess Neith and the mummy represents her pregnant with deities.

The red "X" in this case of Tutankhamun's burial chamber is not a decorative red sash or ribbon.

The red "X" represents two crossed arrow shafts (and also the hieroglyphic crossed sticks).

The reference is subtle but an arrow with no point or flights is still an arrow.
The challenge of the constructed reference is to recognize the arrows.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maat wrote:

...
I initially noted in the topic (Tombs and Monuments > "KV62 West Wall Niche Question") that the X mummy is the goddess Neith but the reference is certainly more complex in what it represents.

A correction.
I should have correctly referenced the topic as
("Pyramids, Tombs & Monuments" > "KV62 West Wall Niche Question").
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

44. Images. (try this)

Try following with a mobile device with a screen (mobile phone, tablet, or other).

View in full frame Harry Burton's photograph (p0294) of the blocking in doorway of the annexe (Carter no. 171) in the tomb of Tutankhamun.
[ http://www.griffith.ox.ac.uk/gri/Carter/171-p0294.html ]

Rotate the image frame 90 degrees of angle clockward (to right).

Lay the viewing device on a flat surface and view the image from a distance (at arm's length, a meter or farther).

You should be looking diagonally downward at approximately 15 degrees to 30 degrees towards the screen.

Vary your distance and angle as you might' want .

You can also try to view the image in false color sepia if possible.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

45. Symbols ? (try this)

Again, use the same picture as before.
Try the following with a mobile device with a screen (mobile phone, tablet, or other) so that the view more easily can be tilted and adjusted.

View in full frame Harry Burton's photograph (p0294) of the blocking in doorway of the annexe (Carter no. 171) in the tomb of Tutankhamun.
[ http://www.griffith.ox.ac.uk/gri/Carter/171-p0294.html ]

For this exercise:
Rotate the image frame 90 degrees of angle anti-clockward (to Left).

Now, use Carter's white number label in the image to reference position and size as follows.

The label will serve here to mark as the lower left corner of the area that will be referenced for viewing.

Isolate the Viewing Area

Use the label for reference as if it is the square unit of area at lower left corner.

The area to be magnified and viewed is 6 units tall and 3 units wide.

Magnify by How Much?

Magnify the isolated area such that the six units of height fits in height of your screen.

Initial Perspective

Look approximately straight onwardly towards the image.

In this instance, Do Not Lay the viewing device on a flat surface.

Start to view the image from a normal (reading distance?) and adjust distance as might be needed.

Look For

In the right side (two thirds part) area of the image (to right side of Carter's white label) might be seen the form of a royal crook.

The crook symbol is shadowy dark.
Tilt and roll the frame as needed to adjust darkness and visibility of the reference.

Base of the crook form is coincidentally aligned with lower edge of Carter's white label.
The crook measures 5 units tall as measured using Carter's label as the standard unit.

If you can see the crook form, observe very carefully where (in context) it occurs.

Further, also observe the entire isolated area.
I think it might interest anyone who knows or reads ancient textual symbols.
I don't read and might be mistaken.

Regardless, I think the isolated area and beyond it is worth careful scrutiny.
Gradually zoom outward (decrease magnification) to increase the field of view.

I suggest this as a start to begin looking at whatever might be there if it is anything.

The crook form to me appears to change as viewing perspective is changed such that at some angle it no longer looks definitely like a crook symbol but looks like a snake form coiled around a staff with its head looking outwardly (lifted and not curved downward as the crook).

The crook body to me appears smoothly straight and the snake form shows definite curves of the coiled snake and curve of the crook disappears.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

46. Security Images in the Fill

I had posted in July of 2019 about an image that was composed in the rubble material that filled the corridor passage in the tomb of Tutankhamun.

That post might be better considered or understood here in context of the notes and references in this thread.

My original post can be found on page 2 in
(Forum Index > Pharaoh s and Queens > "KV62 Sentinel Statues Functions Considered").
[Post: Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:35pm]

The discussion in that thread went off topic to my attempt to introduce what I recognize as a piece of evidence (a security feature) that indicates the tomb was not robbed as many people suppose since Howard Carter in 1922.

I had not offered in 2019 any basis that might have helped to recognize that the tomb contained such constructs as the one I tried to show as relevant to understand that robbery had not occurred .

Perhaps notes in this thread might provide some basis by which to consider and understand the composition that was in the rubble fill in the corridor.

The original post that suggests how to view the composition.
Here, I will only summarize the matter to be considered.

Carter's Observation

Harry Burton photographed the face of the fill that was found in the corridor when blocking in the outer doorway was removed.
[ http://www.griffith.ox.ac.uk/gri/carter/gallery/p0004.html ]

Carter found a mixture of odd stones in the fill of regular material and ultimately deemed it as evidence of robbery.

My Considerations

I find that the odd inclusion was an optical composition in the rubble.

Among several purposes of the composition was its security function.

Any robbers of tombs would not have known that the fill material contained an optical composition. They like Carter would not likely have recognized the security feature.

The Repaired Break and Security

Carter observed a repairin the upper-left corner part in blocking of the outer doorway.

Inside the corridor, the odd fill of stones was found also in the upper-left corner area.

The repaired blocking while plausible to indicate damage from robbery can also be recognized as a locator reference (such as to reference for official inspection) to indicate where inside the blocked doorway was to be found the security feature.

Robbers could possibly have forged and replaced seal impressions but would not likely have known how to forge the complex optical composition that was formed in the fill of rubble.

Consider that a robber's principle objective would have been to enter the tomb.

A robber would not break the blockage then stop to study the fill of rubble in attempt to understand its significance.

The optical composition would have been destroyed if a robber had disturbed the fill inside the corridor.

The security reference that was composed in the rubble required certain artistic technique and precision to accurately produce it.

Robbers would not likely have taken time to set elements like small pieces of stone in relation to other materials to produce specific optical effects.

Images, Viewing and Precision

Burton's photograph (p0004) shows an optical composition that produces two images (among others that I will not address).

In ancient Egypt, the two images would have been rendered to view with a reflective mirror.

Today, digital software (tools) can be used as I noted in my original post in 2019.

I recommended to use of computer software tools.
Such recommendation should not be misunderstood to think that ancient Egyptians used Microsoft Paint.

A good mirror will also render the images although less conveniently than software.

The image in Burton's photograph ambiguously can be

1) the left half (with eye) of a face (or)
2) the right half of a mouth (with closed lips)

A reflective mirror held in the correct position would have rendered the symmetrically opposite half of each of the Two images.

The composition also contained an alignment reference (half of a beetle form) to guide precise alignment of two halves.

The references also had other aspects beyond the security aspect that is briefly noted here.

Disturbance of the fill of rubble would have destroyed the composition that effectively informed if the tomb had been unofficially entered.

Carter obviously did not recognize the greater informative nature of the blocking in doorway and fill in the corridor but he fortunately exercised excellent archaeological judgement to photographically document the discovery.

It is unfortunate to think that some discoveries were likely thought to be of lesser consequence, could not or simply were not as intensely documented.

I think there were tombs deemed to have been robbed, appeared sparse of stuff, but that likely contained much information.

The pyramid of Khufu for example was not as empty as it has been regarded.

The idiots who defaced it with personal graffiti over the centuries will never know what they destroyed. Unfortunately, neither will we.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

47. A Note On Ancient Egyptian Communication

I found reference to an article by Jan Assman in the discussion
(Forum Index > Mythology and Religion > "the invisible self-created god") where Lutz posted (Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:10 pm) links for several Jan Assman references among which is a link to the .pdf that I note below.

Lutz properly notes the original source information in German and I do not note the German (for lack of textual characters).

In Solar Discourse (Ancient Egyptian Ways of Worldreading), Jan Assman writes:
Quote:
But what Augustin imagined as the angelic way of world- or rather God-reading and what Paul believed to be the promise for the dead, Plotinus described as the Egyptian method of transmitting knowledge.
"The Egyptian sages (be it on the basis of strict research just instinctively) do not use letters in communicating their wisdom so as to express their doctrines and propositions in the form of imitations of voice and speech. Instead, they draw images and lay down in their temples (in the contours of those images) the intellectual content of every thing in such a way that every image forms a totality of knowledge and wisdom without being a discussion and a discursive argumentation. Afterwards the content is released from the image and put into words and the reason is found out for its being thus and not otherwise."
Plotinus , who was himself an Egyptian and a citizen of Assiut, a town that in those days was a stronghold of traditionalism, is writing about hieroglyphs which he seems to confuse with pictorial art and which he takes for a medium that is able to convey meaning without being bound to language and its "temporal order of syllables". This assumption made a great impression upon western minds and formed their idea about hieroglyphs and "hieroglyphic thinking", but since Champillon's decipherment of the hieroglyphic script we know it to be false: hieroglyphs render language in its temporal linearity and "mediacy" exactly like Greek and Latin and other writing systems.

[ http://archiv_ub_uni-heidelberg.de/propylaeumdok/2259/1/Assman_solar_discourse_1994.pdf ]

I don't see that Plotinus (as quoted by Assman) is "writing about hieroglyphs".

Plotinus is quoted as having noted about the "Egyptian sages"that "they draw images" and "in such a way that every image forms a totality of knowledge and wisdom".

Plotinus clearly means and effectively says that the Egyptians drew images to have information that could be extracted (because no knowledge can be had from a thing if information cannot be obtained from it).

To have had "that every image forms a totality of knowledge and wisdom" with no way to access the same would be a useless endeavor.

I think that Assman misunderstood Plotinus who wrote "that the sages do not use letters in communicating their wisdom".

This does not mean that hieroglyphs then were the only available alternative to "letters" had by the ancient Egyptians.

Plotinus would only have been limited to refer to hieroglyphs if hieroglyphs had been the only images that were used by the Egyptians in lieu of text for communication.

My identification of variously constructed references of ancient Egypt informs that constructed references were used in Sm as a different mode to communicate.

Plotinus clearly notes that the Egyptian sages formed images with "a totality of knowledge and wisdom". He effectively describes all constructed references that I have identified to date (with some that are introduced in this thread).

Assman certainly was not aware that constructed references existed and were used in ancient Egypt as a method and mode to communicate (differently than simple art, text and speech).

In absence of information about constructed references, Assman mistakes and misunderstands that Plotinus is "writing about hieroglyphs" even to assert that Plotinus "seems to confuse [hieroglyphs] with pictoral art and which he takes for a medium that is able to convey meaning without being bound to language".

Plotinus does not assert a position that involves hieroglyphs as Assman attributes to him.

Knowledge and understanding about constructed references of ancient Egypt plainly expose that Plotinus here is obviously misunderstood.

Knowledge about constructed references also informs and reveals that such constructs greatly involve concepts from which can be drawn specific information that is relevant to the context in which a construct is observed.

A conceptual representation can without letters or voice communicate a body of information with content to be "rendered into words and the reason is found out for its being thus and not otherwise", as Plotinus wrote.

A concept can present more information than might be required in a given context.

Plotinus is mindful of the involvement and role of language as he evidently states that "content is released from the image [construct] and put into words" afterwards of the constructed reference..

His note that prospective "reason is found out for its being thus and not otherwise" is the is a reference to the making of assessments, decisions, selections from multiple options, and determinations that some constructed references inherently involve because they contain several applicable options.

Decisions about which options are applicable and their significances in each context harum be assessed.

I think the constructed reference of a procession into the tomb of Tutankhamun serves as a good example because it is one constructed reference (one procession) that has multiple expressions (instances).

Each instance of the procession requires consideration for information to be gained.

The construct does not use words or voice. Yet, its content of information that can be recognized immediately requires to involve the "temporal linearity" and mediacy of writing systems.

Language in most instances must be used to communicate understandings from the informative constructs but that does not prevent a construct from yielding information immediately without voice or text.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corrections to my preceding post.

I wrote
Quote:
My identification of variously constructed references of ancient Egypt informs that constructed references were used in Sm as a different mode to communicate.

Correction:

My identification of variously constructed references of ancient Egypt informs that constructed references were used in or as a different mode to communicate.

Quote:
His note that prospective "reason is found out for its being thus and not otherwise" is the is a reference to the making of assessments, decisions, selections from multiple options, and determinations that some constructed references inherently involve because they contain several applicable options.

Correction:

His note that prospective "reason is found out for its being thus and not otherwise" is a reference to the making of assessments, decisions, selections from multiple options, and determinations that some constructed references inherently involve because they contain several applicable options.


Quote:
Decisions about which options are applicable and their significances in each context harum be assessed.

Correctlion:

Decisions about which options are applicable and their significances in each context have to be assessed.
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