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Luxor statue question

 
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Fof
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:37 pm    Post subject: Luxor statue question Reply with quote

Between the 1st and 2nd pylons, is a large statue of Ramesses II, with his daughter Bent'anta.
I have read on different sites that this was usurped by Ramesses VI and later by Pinedjem I.
If so, I would have thought that the cartouches of previous "owners" would have been removed.
If so, how do we know who it actually was originally, or who "owned" it subsequently.

Fof

ps Is there any way to post an image from my PC rather than having to upload it to another website first and then link to that?
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Fof
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry.
It is in the Karnak complex.
Here is the image (I hope)
[img]https://ibb.co/CVSgwJH[/img]
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Fof
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugger.
That didn't seem to work.
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Fof
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's try again.


That seems to work. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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karnsculpture
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if it's the case here, but on many usurped statues the original name is not always removed. It may be that the original survives round the back, or on an arm, or just that the later cartouches were added.
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Fof
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks.
Surprised. I thought they were more thougher than that.
When a Pharaoh fell out of favour, they seemed to be reasonably efficient in removing their names.
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karnsculpture
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, they were not too thorough especially ‘round the back of colossi or at the top of obelisks (e.g. Hatchepsut’s) - basically anywhere the cartouches couldn’t be seen.
It was pretty commonplace for later kings to usurp monuments and it wasn’t a sign of disrespect. In some cases it may have been done as an act of association, wanting to be linked to the earlier king.
Compare to the statues of Akhenaten - nobody was going to usurp those they were toppled, smashed and buried. With Hatchepsut there was a middle ground approach I think, intended to put her back in place as a queen (as those depictions survived) - enhancing the prominence of Tuthmose III in his later reign.
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maat
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karnsculpture wrote:

Compare to the statues of Akhenaten - nobody was going to usurp those they were toppled, smashed and buried. With Hatchepsut there was a middle ground approach I think, intended to put her back in place as a queen (as those depictions survived) - enhancing the prominence of Tuthmose III in his later reign.

Statues of Hatshepsut and later those of Akhenaten had been broken and buried.

Their statues obviously share distorted gender as a characteristic.

Hatshepsut was a female shown as male. Her (co-regent?) was male.
Akhenaten was a male shown as female. (His queen somehow extended him?)

The statues seem to me like bookend references in the timeline of kingships
with MF and FM genders in reference.

Are there any other large format statues of other ancient Egyptian kings that show similar distortions of gender or is gender distortion uniquely found with these two pharaohs?
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