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Indicating a Different Identity for the Mummy "Thutmose

 
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SaintGermain
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:51 pm    Post subject: Indicating a Different Identity for the Mummy "Thutmose Reply with quote

https://www.academia.edu/27375879/THE_RISE_OF_THUTMOSE_I_AND_TWO_THEBAN_PRINCES

Various data, including the latest in DNA
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karnsculpture
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, the last paragraph there is really interesting. It underlines how much more needs to be done to understand the lineage of the 17th and 18th Dynasties. Tuthmosis I must have married into the royal family, probably a brother-in-law or son-in-law of Amenhotep I. It is impossible to explain things further without more data.
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SaintGermain
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

karnsculpture wrote:
Thank you, the last paragraph there is really interesting. It underlines how much more needs to be done to understand the lineage of the 17th and 18th Dynasties. Tuthmosis I must have married into the royal family, probably a brother-in-law or son-in-law of Amenhotep I. It is impossible to explain things further without more data.


There's a lot to think about. What I wonder about is the barque shrine of Amenhotep I. See here:

https://www.sharm-club.com/egypt/temples/alabaster-chapel-of-amenhotep

Wiki has the intriguing "Firstly, Amenhotep's alabaster bark built at Karnak associates Amenhotep's name with Thutmose's name well before Amenhotep's death." with the footnote mentioning Grimal. I am trying to follow up on this.

Dodson and Hilton opine that Mutnofret, one of the wives of Thutmose I, was probably a daughter of Ahmose I. They may say this because Amenhotep I and Thutmose can have been of the same generation. In other words, Thutmose as the successor already had to have had two children of around 15 years old. Since Thutmose I probably reigned for 13 years and Thutmose II only for 3 and the latter's mummy indicates around age 30 at death--one can do the math. About 15 years had to account for both reigns in total.

The other wife, Ahmose, was "snt nsw", which can mean just about any relationship--sister, half-sister, cousin, aunt, etc. of Thutmose I. Since Thutmose II and Hatshepsut were approximately the same age, their father must have been married to their mothers for at least that length of time. If they were around 15 when the father came to the throne, that means he had been a part of the royal family for nearly all [or maybe all] of the reign of Amenhotep I, which consisted of 20 years and 7 months. It depends on how long Thutmose had been married to Mutnofret, who can have borne other sons even older than Thutmose II, such as Wadjmose and Amenmose. But who was Thutmose that a king's daughter was given to him?

Dr. Woodward doesn't seem to have made a mistake about that mummy being a son of Amenhotep I. Although he never formally published his findings, he certainly turned them over to the Egyptians. In fact, Nasri Iskander even made a visit to Utah where the microbiologist had his lab. So, since the late 90's, the mitochondrial and perhaps even the autosomal DNA
of a list of mummies was known in Egypt--but not disclosed. This DNA can be history-changing. According to the pAbbot, in the reign of Ramesses IX Prince Ahmose-Sipair had an intact tomb, probably on Dra Abu el Naga, as the king's agents seemed to have gone over that side of the temple of Hatshepsut. When the scribe wrote "nsw". he simply forgot the "sA" in front of it, as Sipair certainly had no kingly prenomen. The tomb is still there somewhere, of course. I realize there is a mummy [partial] pf a child who
was called Ahmose Sipair but it can't have been the same person. [/url]
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karnsculpture
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We don't know if the chapel does associate Tuthmose with Amenhotep before the latter's death - he and Hatchepsut did more work on it. This may have been part of their work to further legitimise their family line.

However, there must be a reason for such a smooth transition of power - and we know for example that officials and female family members lived on throughout these reigns.

Queen Ahmose-Nefertari is a key figure here, venerated while still alive in the reign of Tuthmose I, and undoubtedly the matriarch of the family.
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SaintGermain
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karnsculpture wrote:

Quote:
We don't know if the chapel does associate Tuthmose with Amenhotep before the latter's death - he and Hatchepsut did more work on it. This may have been part of their work to further legitimise their family line.


I had never seen anything about "before the latter's death" and no amount of searching online has brought up anything on it. Since someone who contributed that to the Wiki article referenced Grimal, they must have had something in mind, but I have nothing by Grimal here. I am going to make a bit more of an effort to find the text on that shrine.
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SaintGermain
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meanwhile, here is a text of Prince Amenmose that has him as eldest king's son.

https://mjn.host.cs.st-andrews.ac.uk/egyptian/texts/corpus/pdf/urkIV-036.pdf
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